American Indian admixture in White Americans

[Yaffa]

Not to say your the minority ( LOL) but the people I know who research in the area some came through Granville NC which was a known area to have a lot of free people of color, both African and Indian. These people move on to the areas of western NC and some then on to SC, GA, KY or TN. Some of my family came through Granville NC and went west to Western NC and stayed. Some people I have living in Western NC, I dont have paper to show they came from somewhere else other than Western NC. A few I can move East to Granville NC and some of their Y-DNA connects to others in VA but I have no paper to connect to VA with the DNA results.

I dont think there is an actual study to say how many people in the Appalachia were mixed and how many show up as not being mixed at all. I can only report what I have seen so far.

[Yaffa]

This is a NC Map site. Has a lot of historic maps. If you search using the word Indian you will come up with Indian tribe locations. There were many Tribes in NC not just Cherokee. There were also some VA tribes documented to have come to NC. Unfortunately most of the other tribes do not have records. To say all the other tribes died off, probably not and they probably blended in with other tribes or blended in with the European settlers.

http://www.lib.unc.edu/dc/ncmaps/

[Yaffa]

Forgot to add

Forgot to mention in the 1750's all of Western NC was Rowan County. This was still all Indian Territory so to speak

[darroll]

This marrying the Indians was more common out west where women were scarce.

[rainbow]

My H1c mtdna line moved to Rowan County, North Carolina from Virginia around 1801. The original Rowan County was much larger than Rowan today; it was divided up into several smaller counties in the late 1700s and 1800s.

@ Barreldriver. Could you help me with my SNPs? I would like help with my Eurogenes HET SNPs analysis. I am US87.

My autosomal results vary widely. DNAPrint's AncestryByDNA 2.5 gave me 83% European and 17% Native American. DNATribes did match me to Alaskan Athabaskans, but also to hundreds of other populations such as Portugal, Finland and Greece.
23andme gave me Europe 99.60% and Africa 00.40%. No Asian/no Native American at all.
Dr. McDonald said my BGA is typical of Western Europeans. Eurogenes vary slightly each update. One times I had about 1% Amerindian/Siberian combo.

[Yaffa]

http://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/genealogy/countyform.html

List of all the county formations in NC

[Barreldriver]

My H1c mtdna line moved to Rowan County, North Carolina from Virginia around 1801. The original Rowan County was much larger than Rowan today; it was divided up into several smaller counties in the late 1700s and 1800s.

@ Barreldriver. Could you help me with my SNPs? I would like help with my Eurogenes HET SNPs analysis. I am US87.

My autosomal results vary widely. DNAPrint's AncestryByDNA 2.5 gave me 83% European and 17% Native American. DNATribes did match me to Alaskan Athabaskans, but also to hundreds of other populations such as Portugal, Finland and Greece.
23andme gave me Europe 99.60% and Africa 00.40%. No Asian/no Native American at all.
Dr. McDonald said my BGA is typical of Western Europeans. Eurogenes vary slightly each update. One times I had about 1% Amerindian/Siberian combo.

The variance in Eurogenes is due to updates in tools (the admin. has been gradually adding new methods, populations, and tools, the latest being the RHH counter which was used in a study gauging previously unfound African ancestry in White Utahns), I'll take a look at the text files and mosaics and private message what I can find. It might take a while depending on how many HET's you've got. I wouldn't trust AncestrybyDNA because they only use a few hundred AIM's, the most detailed and accurate analysis use at least 500 k SNP's, the best uses 1 million (though the results don't differ much between the 500k and 1 mil, the extra 500 k usually covers more health data and some very ancient noise etc...).

I've noticed with those who are actually mixed their results changed more as new populations were added, with folks like myself my results have stayed near 100% the same since the earlier stages of the projects. The slight variations that occurred were regarding my intra-European analysis, I became more "British" as more updates were had while in the earlier stages I was more in between the British, Germans, and French.

[Barreldriver]

@rainbow Also with Eurogenes, if the 1% Amerindian/Siberian was with some of the pre-RHH counter results that's more than likely due to the 2% margin of error, I'll see if I can find anything more when I take a look at the RHH counter lists. Also, I've only got two of the RHH folders, one contains the first run which I'm in (and so is US87), the second update I have has me in it but not US87, there were three different emails from that phase in the RHH counter test, I only downloaded the first and the third, I'm missing the second which would contain your updated RHH counter results (they shouldn't vary much, but to be safe the more recent the better). So for now I'll have to use the data from the November 23rd update, I can't use your December update as I don't have that email, I've only got the December update with my results and the MDS plots.

[rainbow]

Thank you Barreldriver. I had tried snpsmart and saw the red and blue pie charts for the general continental groups, but I wanted to see the specific groups (Druze, etc) the HET SNPs are found in. I have a lot of SNPs in the Eurogenes text document. I looked them up in my raw data and all are HET (mostly CT and some are AG).
If you know how to check for that, please tell me how and I can check it on my own.
Thanks

[rainbow]

http://statelibrary.ncdcr.gov/genealogy/countyform.html

List of all the county formations in NC

Forsyth County was created from Stokes County. Stokes County was created from Surry County. Surry County was created from Rowan County. That part I knew. I didn't know Rowan County was created from Anson County.

Davie County was created from Rowan County. My mtdna line lived in these two counties.

There is a family genealogy that says the father of my GGGG Grandmother moved to Rowan County, North Carolina from Halifax County, Virginia around 1801. But the only man I can find of that name and timeframe moved to Surry County, North Carolina, (with his second wife) supposedly from Orange County or Albemarle County, Virginia. I am gonna accept that that man is my ancestor (and his first wife) and that the family historians were still using the old county names that they were used to instead of the new names.
Even with the internet it is confusing keeping up with the changes.

[Barreldriver]

Thank you Barreldriver. I had tried snpsmart and saw the red and blue pie charts for the general continental groups, but I wanted to see the specific groups (Druze, etc) the HET SNPs are found in. I have a lot of SNPs in the Eurogenes text document. I looked them up in my raw data and all are HET (mostly CT and some are AG).
If you know how to check for that, please tell me how and I can check it on my own.
Thanks

I checked your SNP's from the November 23rd update and found some small segments from the middle ages and Neolithic, you might have more segments on your updated file that are more recent and indicative of admix, I naturally cannot know unless I were to see the your update (I had it at one point but I never downloaded it, left that file it in my old email account and deleted that email, I only managed to save the original nov. 23 file, the update with my results and the very last update with the new maps, I'll pm what I got from your data on the November one.

Basically what you need to do is find the centimorgan locations for all those SNP's, a segment consists of 3 or more SNP's that have very close centimorgan locations, depending on the size of the segment one can get an estimate age in generations via 100/segment size in cM (only accurate if it's beyond 4 generations old), and one can get a percentile by dividing it by 3000 (as the human genome is 3000 mega base pairs approx, one centimorgan equals roughly 1 mil base pairs how one mega base pair roughly equals 1 mil base pairs, so the division can be done with both centimorgan or mega base pairs).

Then within the segments look at the graphs on SPSmart and from there you can get an idea of where those segments came from in relation to the time frame presented by the age estimate gained by the segment lengths.

My RHH mosaic was ridiculously tedious for the math because I really had no clear segments by what the admin said and what Dr. McDonald said, I really had to dig to find even one segment and it was 333 generations old. lol

[Barreldriver]

To find the cM locations use this web site:

http://integrin.ucd.ie/cgi-bin/rs2cm.cgi

You'll have to dig through all your SNP's, enter all of them manually one by one in 23andMe's genome browser to find what chromosome they are on, organize the SNP's in a .txt file using notepad in this fashion (I made a separate notepad file for each chromosome):

rs6800763
rs6766045
rs11917226
rs9836861
rs17021085
rs7640578
rs17021590
rs7630002
rs7617463
rs1398746
rs563041


Then upload them, make sure to click the check box for html that way you get a clear table to view.

[rainbow]

Thank you. I got the pms but it was cut off. Please send the rest.

I had no idea that my SNPs could be timed to the Neolithic and Bronze age. The pm didn't mention Middle Ages. That part must have been cut off.

I don't have an updated SNP file. The one from November is the only one with the snp list.

The info in my signature is from data in the Dec 09th link in the Eurogenes blog.

Thank you for your help. Weeks ago I emailed Eurogenes asking for help (all I saw was my mosaic graph) but he just said to read the instructions in his blogs. Later on I found the SNP list for everyone was in a link that just said text document at the very bottom of the attachment that had the RHH map.

I appreciate your taking the time to help me interpret my data. Thanks so much.

[Barreldriver]

Thank you. I got the pms but it was cut off. Please send the rest.

I had no idea that my SNPs could be timed to the Neolithic and Bronze age. The pm didn't mention Middle Ages. That part must have been cut off.

I don't have an updated SNP file. The one from November is the only one with the snp list.

The info in my signature is from data in the Dec 09th link in the Eurogenes blog.

Thank you for your help. Weeks ago I emailed Eurogenes asking for help (all I saw was my mosaic graph) but he just said to read the instructions in his blogs. Later on I found the SNP list for everyone was in a link that just said text document at the very bottom of the attachment that had the RHH map.

I appreciate your taking the time to help me interpret my data. Thanks so much.

Seems the private message route is failing, I even partitioned the emails, but everytime I get halfway through it cuts off no matter how long the message is (it could only be a sentence long and it gets cut off) must be an error with the PM system. Let me know how else to send it to you.

[rainbow]

Seems the private message route is failing, I even partitioned the emails, but everytime I get halfway through it cuts off no matter how long the message is (it could only be a sentence long and it gets cut off) must be an error with the PM system. Let me know how else to send it to you.

I will pm you.

Let's hope the FTDNA IT team make and keep a New Year's resolution to fix that cut-off bug that happens in pms and posting in threads.

Happy New Year 2011 To Everyone!!