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American Indian admixture in White Americans

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  • I logged in to my 23andme account today and saw that I have one more, with a total of 185 relative finder matches. Some are fourth cousins, lots are fifth cousins, and lots more beymd that up to distant cousin. I sent invites to the top 5 who I share the most genomes with, varying from .39% to .32%. They are listed as predicted fourth cousins. One of the five is listed as an American Indian, with mtdna A2, and a ydna of R1b1b2a1a2f. My top match is also R1b1b2a1a2f, but with mtdna H1a. My 23andme mtdna is H1*, but is at least H1c. Still waiting for my FGS from FTDNA, due tomorrow.

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    • It went up to 185 matches. So far I sent 10 invites, and 1 replied. I have one match from Finland, a predicted fifth cousin, who I didn't invite yet.

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      • I sent 20 invites so far, and 2 accepted. I am hoping that all will eventually accept. I know my top #3 match, the one that listed his regional ancestry as American Indian, has logged in, because it has since been changed to show no region. He is an A2 mtdna. The DNA shared column says we are .35%, fourth cousins. But since 23andme says I have no American Indian ancestry I probably match him thru his European ancestors.
        One of my two replies is a D4f, but is a Japanese mtdna, not American Indian. I have matches to A, C, and D's, but we must be matching thru European lines. I also match a few X's. And one ydna Q1b from Canada.
        Last edited by rainbow; 28 March 2010, 01:20 PM.

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        • My landlady included me in her census yesterday. She left the race question blank. She said "don't need to write a bible". She is Peruvian.
          I put white. I didn't check Native American. In the boxes under Native American I put "unknown". Before doing the census, I had asked my mom what she was putting, and she said only white. She said the descent from Pocahontas isn't proven, and that she is working on it. A year or two or three ago she had told me that we had many lines of descent from Pocahontas, according to what distant cousins posted online.

          With conflicting dna tests, the biological ancestry of my paternal grandmother is unknown. The paper trail is white.
          Last edited by rainbow; 3 April 2010, 04:45 PM.

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          • I hope the census will figure out that there is only one of you to count, how rude that the landlady included you on her census form when each and every address is supposed to get their own.

            I hope it won't be the tipping point for giving you another member of congress.

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            • Originally posted by rucksack View Post
              I hope the census will figure out that there is only one of you to count, how rude that the landlady included you on her census form when each and every address is supposed to get their own.

              I hope it won't be the tipping point for giving you another member of congress.
              I wasn't counted twice. I didn't mail in the census I got at the library.
              I live at her address. I didn't think she would include me on her census because she doesn't give receipts. But I was included. I hope she mailed it. And I hope other boarders/renters are also counted.

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              • Re double counting

                I ran into a similar situation when I was trying to investigate my maternal line. I don't recall the exact details or the year. But I noticed an almost certain double counting of a sister of my maternal grandmother. She was in a boarding house in Milwaukee, WI, where she was counted. But the family where she was based, elsewhere in Wisconsin, also counted her. Her real mother had died and all the children were scattered among relatives.

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                • Originally posted by rainbow View Post
                  I logged in to my 23andme account today and saw that I have one more, with a total of 185 relative finder matches. Some are fourth cousins, lots are fifth cousins, and lots more beymd that up to distant cousin. I sent invites to the top 5 who I share the most genomes with, varying from .39% to .32%. They are listed as predicted fourth cousins. One of the five is listed as an American Indian, with mtdna A2, and a ydna of R1b1b2a1a2f. My top match is also R1b1b2a1a2f, but with mtdna H1a. My 23andme mtdna is H1*, but is at least H1c. Still waiting for my FGS from FTDNA, due tomorrow.

                  The person that I match .39% (23andme's Relative Finder) with that was mtdna A2 and listed himself as Native American had later changed his profile. He hasn't accepted the invite I sent 30 days ago. He is still listed as my .39%, but his mtdna haplogroup has been changed from A2 to H1a. That is a huge difference! Looks like 23andme aren't very accurate when it comes to mtdna haplogroups.

                  edit: The A2 is still there, but was knocked down to .35%. I have a .39% with a H1a. Both guys are ydna R1b1b2a1a2f.
                  I just cancelled my invitation to them, since it's been 30 days.
                  A third guy on my first page is also ydna R1b1b2a1a2f, but mtdna is H11a2. He is listed as from Canada and is .23%. All three are predicted fourth cousins.
                  Last edited by ~Elizabeth~; 24 April 2010, 07:21 PM.

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                  • In regards to native admixture I can just give my case. I am from the Appalachian region, specifically the Cumberland Plateau in Overton County, Tennessee, my folks started out in the Piedmont, then made way over onto the Plateau.

                    In my paternal family we were mostly Brits, paternal roots in Yorkshire, however in my paternal great grandmothers family there was claim to Cherokee ancestry, I've only discovered two documented ancestors 10 generations back who were 1/2 admixed.

                    In my maternal family they were mostly Penn. Krauts but my great great grandmother's family were from New Brunswick in Canada, they were originally displaced Loyalists out of Maine, and according to my uncle they were eventually Metis, the Indian component being Iroquois, which I thought odd for a Canadian Metis as I thought most were mixed with the Algonquian people.

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                    • Originally posted by Barreldriver View Post
                      In regards to native admixture I can just give my case. I am from the Appalachian region, specifically the Cumberland Plateau in Overton County, Tennessee, my folks started out in the Piedmont, then made way over onto the Plateau.

                      In my paternal family we were mostly Brits, paternal roots in Yorkshire, however in my paternal great grandmothers family there was claim to Cherokee ancestry, I've only discovered two documented ancestors 10 generations back who were 1/2 admixed.

                      In my maternal family they were mostly Penn. Krauts but my great great grandmother's family were from New Brunswick in Canada, they were originally displaced Loyalists out of Maine, and according to my uncle they were eventually Metis, the Indian component being Iroquois, which I thought odd for a Canadian Metis as I thought most were mixed with the Algonquian people.
                      this is because cherokee/north eastern native peoples history is incomplete and what is on the record is recorded and translated into wrong concepts and with wrong or mixed naming issues or just plain wrong... so there is history issues due to many factors.
                      just believe your family they had no reason to lie. pass down what you do know to your kids.

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                      • Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
                        this is because cherokee/north eastern native peoples history is incomplete and what is on the record is recorded and translated into wrong concepts and with wrong or mixed naming issues or just plain wrong... so there is history issues due to many factors.
                        just believe your family they had no reason to lie. pass down what you do know to your kids.
                        I'm finding that a lot when researching the Metis part, there are almost zero records on the Natives who are not Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, etc....

                        I do not doubt the claim of Metis ancestry in the least, especially when looking at younger photos of my great grandmother, she has a Metis look, I had never seen photos of her before up until recently, and Metis is not one of those cliche claims to be ignored.

                        I just never knew by going on family tree alone, her Anglo side has a lot of gaps in it around 1821, 1806, and the later 1700's and the claim of Metis ancestry is just too specific and non-cliche to ignore. I just know the folks on this side of the tree were from Maine, New Brunswick, and Massachusetts originally then settling in Pennsylvania which is how they mixed in with my Penn. Kraut ancestors.

                        My troubles in researching should be eased when my uncle emails/forwards me the information he has, he stated that he has more specific information on the tribal root and which person it specifically came from.
                        Last edited by Barreldriver; 13 May 2010, 12:06 PM.

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                        • Originally posted by Barreldriver View Post
                          I'm finding that a lot when researching the Metis part, there are almost zero records on the Natives who are not Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, etc....

                          I do not doubt the claim of Metis ancestry in the least, especially when looking at younger photos of my great grandmother, she has a Metis look, I had never seen photos of her before up until recently, and Metis is not one of those cliche claims to be ignored.

                          I just never knew by going on family tree alone, her Anglo side has a lot of gaps in it around 1821, 1806, and the later 1700's and the claim of Metis ancestry is just too specific and non-cliche to ignore. I just know the folks on this side of the tree were from Maine, New Brunswick, and Massachusetts originally then settling in Pennsylvania which is how they mixed in with my Penn. Kraut ancestors.

                          My troubles in researching should be eased when my uncle emails/forwards me the information he has, he stated that he has more specific information on the tribal root and which person it specifically came from.
                          well don't ask for specifics but it is very very possible that your female line was metis females and very well could be that and from very famous cherokee males . and odder yet is that "Mixed blood" of the metis would also mean mixed clan or no clan ... had nothing to do with white blood but mixed tribes or no clans or other tribes clans ... and it wouldn't be prove-able or disprovable now and thus the little girls and famous grandpa "kings" .... and words like " princesses " stick. but just tiny history Like that of JOhn Norton and his Uncle john and Joseph Brant should give you a few tiny clues to just how mixed for a time everything became because of the politics of survival. and so much more isn't even recorded . but everyone was in everyones business for nearly 100 years or more . so what your family said is probably the truth.. unraveling it is the hard part.

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                          • Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
                            well don't ask for specifics but it is very very possible that your female line was metis females and very well could be that and from very famous cherokee males . and odder yet is that "Mixed blood" of the metis would also mean mixed clan or no clan ... had nothing to do with white blood but mixed tribes or no clans or other tribes clans ... and it wouldn't be prove-able or disprovable now and thus the little girls and famous grandpa "kings" .... and words like " princesses " stick. but just tiny history Like that of JOhn Norton and his Uncle john and Joseph Brant should give you a few tiny clues to just how mixed for a time everything became because of the politics of survival. and so much more isn't even recorded . but everyone was in everyones business for nearly 100 years or more . so what your family said is probably the truth.. unraveling it is the hard part.
                            I know it didn't come from my mtDNA line, as my mtDNA is H, but there's plenty of room for it to fit in between.

                            In my paternal family the Cherokee admix was females, one Cherokee female who married a German man, then the other case was a Cherokee + Brit mix.

                            The Metis ancestry in my mothers family would match up with the time period of Captain Joseph Brant, and I am suspecting that maybe the Iroquois component came from some of his men or something, coincidence that it was Loyalists married to Iroquois considering Brant lead both Loyalists and Mohawk men. Also this line not only had Loyalist connections but participation in the French and Indian War.

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                            • I'm getting very frustrated in my research, there seems to be zero resources available for Iroquois or Metis ancestry/genealogy, just pages with cultural information, which is interesting but not what I'm looking for.

                              I'm curious why there seems to be such a lack of genealogical resources for these groups when compared to other tribes.

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                              • Newfoundland Aboriginals

                                Greetings ; I am a few years late to these Brilliantly, Fascinating posts. It has taken me a week to read, link, look, and laugh...
                                Since I was not involved, I really appreciated everyone's input. Especially learning/seeing the different details of clans in both America's. I have studied US American South Western Indians and worked on Reservation. I live in the Sierra Nevada Foothills and most people here are not doing their genealogy. You can't imagine how it was for me to read a discussion from Indian admixture people about Indian admixture people...Beautiful...
                                My Native Ancestor is from Newfoundland/Labrador, my mother's father. Thankfully I have only 3 Bands to seek out; Beothuk; original Red Indian, wiped out by 1829. Mi'kmaq who took the place of the Beothuk. And Montagnais from Labrador. They all traveled, traded, and played fairly well together until the 1700's. I am hoping my FFAutosomal testing may discover some relatives who have tested. I have all my genealogy from this area and of course, not one hint of admixture on paper. But we do know which family group and timeframes, with a women's name unknown. A male Native Aboriginal could not have assimilated/married very well in the 1700's, into this English culture unnoticed. But a native women was more common to be w/ a white man who was already apart of the community; religion, language, employment, education. And there was all that fishing, whaleing & sealing on hundreds of Isolated islands. That's generally how these assimilation's worked. Otherwise they would have been living on a iceberg somewhere.
                                How did my direct ancestors do it? = A continually burning question. Especially w/ the children. They did move n 1887 to Montreal. Some relatives stayed in the outer banks.
                                I found only 1 living distant cousin [out of many] who was willing to talk; we come from the same family, 2 brothers born early 1800's. I had the story & photos, she also had photos... We're still looking for that direct male or female decendant who will test.
                                I will post my FF results whenever they arrive. Here's my Greatgrandfather b 1874 & his sister b 1884 I cropped them out from others. I have another photo of my ggrandfather in his early 60's, he looks like his sister !
                                Attached Files

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