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American Indian admixture in White Americans

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  • #76
    Autosomal DNA - Native American Heritage

    [QUOTE .....Follow the paper trails if you can. Don't depend totally on this autosomal testing. If one is lucky the autosomal test can confirm, but a negative result (of your expectations) doesn't mean it never was there.[/QUOTE]

    My father told my brothers and me that we were part native american and I have located a third cousin who says her grandfather was 1/8 Cherokee (that's probably what my father said but he's been gone for 40 years so I can't ask him to retell his stories) and had been taught to count in the Cherokee language. This would make my 3rd cousin and me 1/32 (3%) Cherokee. Somewhere I read that this is the smallest percentage for which results can be obtained with Autosomal DNA testing, and that is "iffy." The line switched between female to male to female so mt and Y are not an option.

    The person who I suspect was my ggg grandmother (and supposedly 100% Cherokee) had a father who had emigrated from Hungary which means this woman was not full-blooded Cherokee (UNLESS she was adopted!!!!).

    Does anyone feel the Autosomal DNA could be of any value under these circumstances? I don't know of anyone left in the (6%) generation before ours.


    • #77
      Because autosomal DNA testing is not an exact science and results can vary even between full blood siblings, it's always a gamble.

      You need to decide how important this is for you emotionally and spiritually. If this is something you really believe you would benefit from and you can afford to do it, then go for it.


      • #78
        Originally posted by gwenboucher
        ... This would make my 3rd cousin and me 1/32 (3%) Cherokee. Somewhere I read that this is the smallest percentage for which results can be obtained with Autosomal DNA testing, and that is "iffy." ... Does anyone feel the Autosomal DNA could be of any value under these circumstances? I don't know of anyone left in the (6%) generation before ours.
        If you can afford to test both yourself and cousin (and anyone else in your generation) you would increase the odds of getting a reading.


        • #79
          I really think that is interesting, Derinos.

          I enjoy talking with the historians in the Williamsburg area. I think it is one of the best ways to gain information.

          I am amazed America has fifty states. I thought the Virginian tribe was different than the Maryland tribe when I was younger. I guess the people liked the term states better because the families were smaller in a state than in a tribe?

          Originally posted by derinos
          Insightful, Greg!
          I had the honor of attending a ceremony of the Pamunkeys a few years ago when the Governor of Virginia presented a Bushel of Corn as symbolic reparation for misappropriations by Capt John Smith in 1608 et seq.

          I have spoken over the years to several Pamunkey and Mattaponi members. They still have a coherent oral tradition of the Powhatan period, and senses that the people were just People, that the tribal names were territorial rather than genetically closed, and that inter tribal movement of individuals occurred frequently apart from Powhatan's conquests. Which indicates it will be difficult for anyone with Original genealogy in Virginia to identify with a particular tribe.

          The Eastern Originals mostly spoke Algonkian with minor regional variations. (In fact certain ceremonial Algonkian words , like calumet and omaha for peacepipe and shield, are widely distributed all over North America despite some great dissimilarity of regional root languages like Sioux and Athabaskan, which are otherwise unrelatable.
          The men and women I talked with were initially very reluctant to part with language instruction to me. But later on they were more liberal as they recognised sincerity to their identity.


          • #80
            Most of my European ancestors ended up in the southeastern U.S. before moving further west.
            From genealogical seminars regarding this region, I learned that there was some Euro-American intermarriage with the so-called "5 Civilized Tribes". Here is a snippet from Wikipedia:

            "The Five Civilized Tribes is the term applied to five Native American nations, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole, considered "civilized" by white society because they had adopted many of the colonists' customs (including the ownership of plantations and slaves) and had generally good relations with their neighbors. The Five Civilized Tribes lived in the Southeastern United States before their removal to other parts of the country, especially the future Oklahoma."


            • #81
              Part 4.

              1609-Henry Spelmen, an English boy of 15, was being held by Powatan(Wahunsenecawh). The King of Patawomeck(in 1609, was my 11th g.grandfather, Japasaw) came with 15 or 20 bowmen to visit Powatan and befriended Spelmen. After the King of the Potowomeck left, Spelmen mangaged to escape. With Powhatans men hot on his trail, he caught up with the Kings party, who blocked the advancing men of Powatans with drawn bows, allowing Spelmen to escape into the woods. Spelmen headed to the village of the Patawomecks. After several days, he came upon the village of Passapatanzy, ruled by Japsaw, brother to Powatan. Japsaw took Henry Spelmen into his home and treated him as one of his family. Japasaw had at least 2 wives. One wife was named Paupauwiske and had an infant son, who became the later King of the Patawomeck, Wahangonoche(10th g.grandfather) son of Japasaw.

              Powatan visited the Patawomcks and ceremoniously placed the officail crown, given by the English, upon his head before throwing beads to the assembled tribesmen.



              • #82
                Part 5.

                While living with the Potowomeck, Henry Spelmen, witnessed a battle fought bettween the Patawomeck and the Massawomecks, thier mortal enemy from the North. In Dec 1610, Capt Argall landed at Patawomeck and traded 9 pounds of copper, bunches of beads, and various foods to the King of the Potowomecke for Henry Spelmen. The King told Argall where to find Spelmen at the town of Mattchipongo on Acquia Creek, where he found Spelmen on Christmas Day. A few days later they visited the town of Passapatanzy, aparently for Spelmen to see his friend, Japasaw(my line), before leaving. Cheif Japsaw came aboard the ship and in the present of Capt. Argall, Henry Spelmen and William Strachey, the secretary of Jamestown Colony, related to them, the Patawomeck story of Creation. Spelmen acted as interpeter. Capt Argall gave Japasaw many presents for having taken such good care of Henry Spelmen.

                Pocahontas married her first husband Kocoum, of the Pataomeck Tribe. His fate is not known, but he was probably killed in one of the many battles with enemy tribes.



                • #83
                  Part 6.

                  Capt Samuel Argall recieved 1100 bussels of corn in trade with the Patawomecks and made a defensive military allieance with them against Powatan. Don Pedro de Zuniga, the Spanish ambassodor in England, imformed his master by letters in 1612 that 40 to 50 marriages had taken place between the English colonist and the Indians and that there were plans to encourage futher unions. He stated that English women were living among the Indians and were being recieved kindly by them(Archeological Society of Virginia Quartly Bulletin, Vol 17, No 2, pp. 19-20.)



                  • #84
                    I just came from Williamsburg and Jamestown and Busch Gardens. It was nice. In Williamsburg Revolutionary Times Presentation, they have included the British and Colonialist viewpoints concerning going west during the 1770s . . . Very interesting.
                    Last edited by GregKiroKH2; 25 March 2007, 06:41 PM.


                    • #85
                      Eastern Algonquian

                      Here are a few phrases in Eastern Algonquian(Language group that the Potawomeck belong too.)

                      1. kekten pokahontas patiaquagh niugh tanks manotyens neet mocheek rawrenock aughowgh.
                      1. Bid Pokahontas bring hiether two little baskets, and I will glue her white beads to make her a chaine.
                      2. maskapow
                      2. The worst of enimies.
                      3. tawnor keheigh Powatan
                      3. Where dwels Powwhatan
                      4. mawchick chammay.
                      4. The best of friends.
                      5. vittapitchewayne anpechitches nehaper werowacomoco.
                      5. You lied, he staide ever at werowacomoco.
                      6. vtteke e peya weyak wighwhip
                      6. Get you gone, and you come again quickly.

                      Sounds like you had a really nice time in Virginia.


                      • #86
                        I feel much better, thank you, after walking along the ocean and seeing the trees of childhood


                        • #87
                          A song to sing

                          WAR-SONG OF THE POWHATANS.

                          (Set down by Strachey in 1610 approx. after the Powhatans had had a victory, capturing some of the colonists in a skirmish. The Indians were very pleased with themselves having at last being able to overcome the colonists whose guns, swords, and armor had until now dominated the gallant but lightly-equipped neolithic Powhatan warriors.)

                          Strachey writes:

                          "They have contrived a kind of angry song against us, which concludeth with a kind of
                          petition unto their OKEUS to plague the Tassantasses for which they call us and their

                          1, 2. They call for magical support and counsel in a prayer to their tribal spirit, "Okey", a lower deity that interests himself in such matters. (They believed that the Great Spirit was above such things as war.)

                          3 , 4. They mock the Tassantasses (English) that they killed and captured them in spite of their armor, swords, magic and guns and to expect more of the same.

                          1 Mat-a-ne-rew sha-sha-she-waw
                          2 E-ra-wan-go pe-che-ko-ma
                          3 Whe'! Tassantassa inoc-shas-haw ye-he in-hoc can po-co-sak:
                          4 Whe'! he'!, yah ha ha. Ne! He!, Wit-to-wa, wit-to-wa!

                          3 Captain Newport in-o-shas-haw
                          neir in-hoc na- ti-an mat-tas-san:

                          3 Thomas Newport in-o-shas-haw neir in-hoc na-ti-an

                          3 Pochin Simon in-o-sha-shaw nin-gon na-ti-an mon-a-

                          Strachey said it means: "They struck the strangers for all their guns, and for all that
                          Captain Newport brought them copper, and they could hurt Thomas Newport, (a hostage)
                          and for all his mon-a- hock (bright sword), and how they could take Simon prisoner, and
                          how they would make him cry, whe'! whe'!"


                          Having sometime worked this up as a credible musical number, I impulsively sang it to drum accompaniment, for a group of Japanese dignitaries visiting the Algonkian Museum in Hampton VA. They liked it, said it was like the Ainu chants of Northern Japan.


                          • #88
                            An event remembered...

                            KEKOUGHTAN: APRIL, 1607

                            A year ago Powhatan drove away the braves
                            Of Kikotan. Wocomoco received
                            Their wives and young. Our families
                            Have joined us in these cedar homes
                            Of our fine captured town.

                            The cold nights are over now
                            And I won't longer need these leggings
                            To tread for clams and grasp the softening crabs.
                            Some young braves still talk of raiding
                            But mostly, settling here, and getting married.

                            Ashore, beanstalks entwine the corn
                            And the pigeons coo through the woods
                            Where sunlight lulls
                            Deer to stand still enough for arrows,
                            That lovers are too drowsed to shoot.

                            On Sippe-uk my log canoe dips on the tide
                            And slow, so slow moves in, so now,
                            And then again ashore, my appetite enjoys
                            Two times, the glow of cookfires and the scent
                            And rounded savor of the oyster roast.

                            I sniff the cedar of my woven house
                            So warm, as I prepare myself
                            And don my feathers for the feast.
                            Drunk with my friends and the corn beer
                            Shall there be news to hear ?

                            For there, quiokosoks will rage
                            On prophesying drums strewing their sweet
                            And dizzying herbs upon the flames,
                            Explaining Tassantasse ships
                            That stood last night against the setting sun.


                            • #89
                              Absolutely amazing.

                              Wow, thank you for the information. You don't know how much I apprecaite it being an decendent to find new information on them. You are amazing. Do you have any Native American heritage? Virginia perhaps? You know so much about Wahunsenecawh and his family. I envy that you live in Virginia, home of my Potawomeck ancestors. Where did you find the information about the Warsong? Which book of Strachey's was this printed in? The second posting is amazing and brought tears to me, did you write this? Or is this 100's of years old?


                              • #90
                                Source for Wm Strachey, War Song Powhatans.

                                The War Song?
                                It was probably from this book. By Willliam Strachey

                                "1618 Historie of Travaile into Virginia Brittania. Strachey offers an eyewitness account of the shipwreck of the Sea Adventure (1609) and life in Jamestown, featuring close observation of the language and beliefs of the surrounding Indian population."