American Indian admixture in White Americans

[purple flowers]

there is lots of things our grandparents didn't tell us because they were avoiding it , it is always to protect us! remember that.
there is no way to tell by looks we have to prove who was here.
yes your grandma loks like she could fit in my grandma family.. but that mean nothing... people say my grandma looks white.. course she is part blood.
my line fits every stereotype and we still came back european or african..

so lets find who was here. we got our work cut out for us.

because we got some STUPID "Scientist"( NOT !) really they are magic witch doctors who are doing DNA ON dirt to prove their damn Bering straits..
what like they can't find a hypothetical 14500 year old lump of DNA from a bag ancient dirt that is hypothetical 10000000000 gazillions years old?..
they can't be that stupid or either way sure as hell think we " common" people are gullible.
I was so mad.. they got some kinds of witch doctor stuff going on..
magic DNA from dirt that just happens to always prove their theories... now that is some hoodoovoodoo.. and their magic potions, a slab of dirt and pinch of pertified poop

I should have said "all we need now is a great big cauldrin and pinch of bat wings and the eye of newt!

[purple flowers]

yes Hotlen
I spent 25 years of my life trying to forget what my grandma told me !

[rainbow]

Virginia info from Derinos.

Hi. I was in another thread and talked about stuff there.
I know there are several members of this forum that have Virginian Indian ancestry, that they know of (and there may be more people that have it but don't know it).


some of what I said:
So far all I have to go on is a DNA Tribes match to Alaskan Athabaskans, but my 17% is from New Jersey (my father's side).

I have a small amount of 'Powhatan' on my mother's side, according to distant cousins.



What derinos said:
Rainbow, I hope the following will be useful to you and others!


Powhatan Confederation of Virginia Tribes:


SEVEN OF THE EIGHT STATE RECOGNIZED VIRGINIA TRIBES THAT WERE
PART OF THE HISTORIC POWHATAN CONFEDERACY

Chickahominy
Chief Stephen Adkins
82 Lott Cary Road
Providence Forge, VA 23140

Eastern Chickahominy
Chief Marvin Bradby
12111 Indian Hill Lane
Providence Forge, VA 23140

Mattaponi (Reservation)
Chief Carl "Lone Eagle" Custalow
1467 Reservation Circle
West Point, VA 23181

Nansemond
Chief Barry W. Bass
P.O. Box 2515
Suffolk, VA 23432

Pamunkey (Reservation)
Chief William P. Miles
Route 1, Box 2220
King William, VA 23086

Rappahannock
Chief Anne Richardson
HCR 1 Box 402
Indian Neck, VA 23148

Upper Mattaponi
Chief Kenneth Adams
13383 King William Road
King William, VA 23086

The following tribe is Siouan-speaking, and was not part of the Powhatan Confederacy.

Monacan Indian Nation
Chief Kenneth Branham
P.O. Box 1136
Madison Heights, VA 24572

[rainbow]

the genographic project has a legacy fund for indigenous communities

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/legacy_fund.html

[kawashkar]

yes Hotlen
I spent 25 years of my life trying to forget what my grandma told me !

Purple Flowers. If you really have Native American ancestry, Purple Flowers, be proud your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait. That's no silly science. It is a fact.

Even more, I can point to the first site in the Americas were the evidence was found after the crossing: it was in my country and it is called Monte Verde.

Regards

[PDHOTLEN]

old human feces in Oregon

I don't know where to stick this tidbit, so I'll put it here with other "Indian" entries.

I was just browsing thru the latest (Jan/Feb '09) copy of Archaeology Magazine and saw a short article about those already reported 14,300 year old human feces found in a cave on Oregon. After a group of multinational geneticists did some research and comparisons with modern-day Native Americans, they concluded that the first people arrived from Asia (via Beringia) around 18,500 years ago.

[rainbow]

I don't know where to stick this tidbit, so I'll put it here with other "Indian" entries.

I was just browsing thru the latest (Jan/Feb '09) copy of Archaeology Magazine and saw a short article about those already reported 14,300 year old human feces found in a cave on Oregon. After a group of multinational geneticists did some research and comparisons with modern-day Native Americans, they concluded that the first people arrived from Asia (via Beringia) around 18,500 years ago.

I can believe the Native Americans were here that long. I actually think that the Native Americans have been in the Americas for as long as the Europeans were in Europe, maybe longer.

[Deirwha]

An interesting proposition

Archaeologically homo sapiens have been in Europe and the Americas a long time by historical standards, not so much by geological. The real questions are (for both Europe and the Americas) is, who were they and from where did they come. I don't know that we have more than the broadest sweeps for answers. Many things are possible. If I recall correctly, we do have slightly earlier mtDNA from ice mummies in the vicinity of Alaska than we do for similar bodies in Europe (but only by maybe a 1000 years). Neither sets of bodies comes close to the consensus range for archaeological data, much less the possible range for archaeological data for the Americas. I would follow this thesis into the future. It may prove a winner.

[rainbow]

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/atlas.html

The Genographic Project website includes info on Cactus Hill, Virginia that dates to 18,000 years ago. "Similarities with artifacts found in southwest Europe from the Solutrean period (circa 20,000 years ago) could suggest an ancient North Atlantic crossing".

And the "Meadowcroft Rockshelter, near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, is an ancient campsite that suggests humans could have lived in North America almost 20,000 years ago".

And the "Boqueirao de Pedra Furada" in Brazil dates to 17,000 years old and has signs of human habitation as early as 45,000 B.C.

[kawashkar]

https://genographic.nationalgeograph.../en/atlas.html

The Genographic Project website includes info on Cactus Hill, Virginia that dates to 18,000 years ago. "Similarities with artifacts found in southwest Europe from the Solutrean period (circa 20,000 years ago) could suggest an ancient North Atlantic crossing".

And the "Meadowcroft Rockshelter, near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, is an ancient campsite that suggests humans could have lived in North America almost 20,000 years ago".

And the "Boqueirao de Pedra Furada" in Brazil dates to 17,000 years old and has signs of human habitation as early as 45,000 B.C.

The north Atlantic crossing is a very speculative idea. Perhaps the last resort of an idea that has taken too long to die.

So, far all evidence points to a single point of contact with Eurasia: Beringia.

[Deirwha]

I think it is premature

to write off the theories of alternative entry points. I agree the evidence remains thin, but that is not the same as no evidence at all. Whatever is the correct inference to be derived from the facts in evidence, facts in evidence place a non Clovis where it is not supposed to be far before it is supposed to be there. Moreover, there is no more vivid a demonstration that the North Atlantic route is possible than the existence of at least one Viking encampment and settlement during the "dark ages." I don't want to bump my gums all day about how any of this proves anything about whether or not the Berring Straits was the only point of entry. However, if the proposition is that there is NO evidence for an alternative route, I think one has to explain how the settlement in question of a culture not previously seen as evidenced by points that do LOOK like a European style came to be in the middle of what became the USA heartland many years before the Berring theory can provide a corridor to explain how these people and artifacts came to be there. I would just as soon give the devil his due so to speak and give the proponents more time for Discovery. So if you were bringing a Motion for Summary Judgement I would tend to deny it if I were hearing it.

[Deirwha]

Having just "got off the line"

in another email conversation, I want to add, the last post of mine comes across harder and snottier than I meant it. I meant nothing personal.

[rainbow]

What I was trying to say is that the ancient Amerindians had sites along the Atlantic side of the Americas that have been dated from 17,000 to 20,000 years old. And one is possibly more than that, up to 47,000 years old.

Info was from the genographic project website.

[rainbow]

The Genographic Project website says that MTDNA A,B,C, & D are around 50,000 years old in Asia but the reduced genetic diversity found in the Americas indicates that those lineages arrived 15,000 to 20,000 years ago and quickly spread.

The archaeological sites along the Atlantic are dated between 17,000 and 20,000 years ago. With one place, in present day Brazil, possibly being used 47,000 years ago.

[derinos]

The Genographic Project website says that MTDNA A,B,C, & D are around 50,000 years old in Asia but the reduced genetic diversity found in the Americas indicates that those lineages arrived 15,000 to 20,000 years ago and quickly spread.

The archaeological sites along the Atlantic are dated between 17,000 and 20,000 years ago. With one place, in present day Brazil, possibly being used 47,000 years ago.

Response: Just so; these factual findings merit explanation, not racist disputation.

There is a big difference, in the amount of present residual DNA or archeological evidence, between an arrival that died out (like, yes, the ca 1000 ybp Norse arrival in North America) and migrations that prospered (the ca 15,000 ybp Beringian flow, and the 400 ybp European migration)).

Those very ancient tenuous human traces, evidences of heroic, tiny, failed pre-Beringian explorings, in very different, sometimes very adverse, climatic and cultural conditions, should be accepted and praised for what they are.

Whether from west or east, they do not detract from the notably successful Beringian migration, which happened at the right climatic time, to people culturally ready to succeed.

There are many archaeologic sites all over the world demonstrating early human, or hominid, arrivals that faded out. It behoves us to try and explain how they happened.

There are some interesting ideas of North-Atlantic-fringe European marine migration around the edge of the ice-shelf, living off the sea and ice (as the Inuit do today),and leaving only some mysterious stonework and "red paint" burials.
(Not to mention some "crank"? hints of feasible Paleolithic navigation, in the 20,000-year gap between HS seaborne arrival in Australia and the Beringian move.