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American Indian admixture in White Americans

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  • #46
    Each of your female ancestors had 2 X chromosomes. Each descendant only received 1 X chromosome from that ancestress, so one X was forever lost to you in each generation. Plus the X's at a certain point (in each generation) exchanged segments of themselves with each other before one X is later passed on to a descendant. So you see, some X chromosomes & the genes each carry are constantly falling by the wayside, lost forever to autosomal testing, unless of course each sibling received a different X or at least some different segments on the X they inherited. (Then with a male, if he has a male child the paternal grandmother's X is lost. Vice-versa if he has a female child - the Y is lost). In my opinion, all siblings of as many generations still living should have autosomal testing & then compare the results for a best overall view. PODHOTLEN, you probably still have Native American. Follow the paper trails if you can. Don't depend totally on this autosomal testing. If one is lucky the autosomal test can confirm, but a negative result (of your expectations) doesn't mean it never was there.
    Last edited by ragnar; 17th October 2006, 04:40 AM.

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    • #47
      I am not aware that the x-chromosome figures in any autosomal test. It isn't actually part of the autosome. It isn't part of DNATribes and think it not part of DNAPrint's ABDNA tests. I don't know if Ethnoancestry's BGA will deal with it.

      It is however a target of current and future tests developed by DNA-Fingerprint, now part of FTDNA, that may, in the next year, yield useful genealogical information between the lines of patrilineal and matrilineal descent.

      In that way it is like autosomal tests, but unlike autosomal tests, x-chromosome results can be attributed to specific ancestral lines, And there is good evidence that certain markers (in linkage disequilibrium) are passed-on together and constitute a motif that endure for some generations.

      I think it is the next frontier.

      Check-out the press-release on the FTDNA homepage.

      Tom

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      • #48
        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
        October 16, 2006

        Since I turned out having European mtDNA and Y-DNA, and not Native American in part, I had an autosomal test done. I just received my results showing that I''m 100% European. Actually, I'm disappointted. I thought I had at least a little Native Ameriican in me.

        Since this autosomal test just looks at specific markers, maybe they missed something. After all, any Native Ammerican would have first entered into my maternal line in the 1700's, or even earlier if it had happened in Nouvelle-France (Quebec).

        Now I'm thinking maybe my family tree is not what I thought it was.
        PDHOTLEN,

        The last time I checked, the autosomal percentages test doesn't look very far back so it misses alot of your ancestries. You still might have Native American ancestry despite your results. It's normal for something not to show up on the test if it's from a great grandparent or before.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by tomcat
          I am not aware that the x-chromosome figures in any autosomal test. It isn't actually part of the autosome.
          Tom
          Thanks Tomcat, you are right. I got my X's mixed up with the other chromosomes.

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          • #50
            I now think that there is a lot more admixture in America's white population. I now believe that most white Americans whose ancestors came from western Europe or Engalnd, and who believe they are all-white, actually have some Native American ancestry in them. I was raised as all-white and never expected to have 17% Native American on my ABDNA.

            I wish I had photos of my paternal grandmothers parents to help me ascertain which one, or maybe both?, was mostly Indian.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by darroll
              The Indians that stayed on the reservations (today) are mostly doing fine. They sent their children to colleges. Now they have their Casinos (See Stevo's earlier comment) and legal council and excellent management and good paying jobs..
              The Indians that live on the reservations have their own police, courts and they do not like any outside intervention as to their affairs. Federal Marshals can only set foot on a reservation if they are invited.
              I wish we would end the usage of politically correct terms. If a dog is brown, we have a brown dog. If someone has an “ugly” nose, better keep quiet.
              All of the words ending in “ISM” should be suspect also.

              darroll
              Sorry for bringing this back up, but you can't be serious. Doing fine? Good paying jobs? Have you been down to the Navajo reservation, or Pine Ridge? Have you read the statistics about poverty levels on the reservations? Have you seen how a lot of these people live, or are you just assuming they all have casinos and collect cash right and left? Please don't make such generalities. Just as it is inappropriate to say "white people are all living in McMansions and doing just fine," it's inappropriate to make such broad generalities about Indians.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by N4321
                Sorry for bringing this back up, but you can't be serious. Doing fine? Good paying jobs? Have you been down to the Navajo reservation, or Pine Ridge? Have you read the statistics about poverty levels on the reservations? Have you seen how a lot of these people live, or are you just assuming they all have casinos and collect cash right and left? Please don't make such generalities. Just as it is inappropriate to say "white people are all living in McMansions and doing just fine," it's inappropriate to make such broad generalities about Indians.
                Sorry,

                I should of said the NW Indians are doing ok. I have a lot of Indian friends and they are doing a lot better. My cousin Larry Donahoo (Indian, deceased) retired with over $5000.00 per month. I lived about 100 feet from the Klamath River Indian Reservation and have a lot of Indian friends.. My Mom was Cherokee. Don't they have casino's in the mid west?
                I stand corrected.
                d

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by rainbow
                  ... Some interesting things I've found on my immigrant great grandfather(my fathers fathers father). He came here from Bremen, Germany as a 'non-immigrant' in 1906, and his listed destination was 'Fordville'. Faintly above it it looks like someone pencilled 'William', so it may be a 'Fort William'. On his naturalization forms, he first tried to say he was from Canada! He listed that he came into the USA from "Port Arthur"?, Canada to Duluth , Minnesota. Why on earth would he be in Canada and Minnesota? ...
                  Maybe as late as 1906 ships' passage to Canada was free (from England) whereas a US-of-A destination cost money. The smart move was to take the free trip and move south.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by darroll
                    Sorry,

                    I should of said the NW Indians are doing ok. I have a lot of Indian friends and they are doing a lot better. My cousin Larry Donahoo (Indian, deceased) retired with over $5000.00 per month. I lived about 100 feet from the Klamath River Indian Reservation and have a lot of Indian friends.. My Mom was Cherokee. Don't they have casino's in the mid west?
                    I stand corrected.
                    d
                    Thanks for your correction. The Dine rejected casinos because of the corruption they tend to bring and their conflict with the traditional ways many Dine still follow. I'm not sure about Pine Ridge, but it's not a high population area and has very rough weather much of the year, like much of the upper midwest and mountain areas, so casinos wouldn't draw that well. Even in the Albuquerque area, you've got casinos like the Sandia Pueblo that do very well because they're near the city and ones on other pueblos farther out that look more like gas stations. Casinos are not the bottomless well we whites tend to think, though. More and more localities are allowing non-Indian owned gambling, and the Indian casinos will lose business.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by N4321
                      Thanks for your correction. The Dine rejected casinos because of the corruption they tend to bring and their conflict with the traditional ways many Dine still follow. I'm not sure about Pine Ridge, but it's not a high population area and has very rough weather much of the year, like much of the upper midwest and mountain areas, so casinos wouldn't draw that well. Even in the Albuquerque area, you've got casinos like the Sandia Pueblo that do very well because they're near the city and ones on other pueblos farther out that look more like gas stations. Casinos are not the bottomless well we whites tend to think, though. More and more localities are allowing non-Indian owned gambling, and the Indian casinos will lose business.
                      The problem here is the state. They keep taking more and more money out of the Casinos. (Taxes, they call it).
                      Then the casino owners have to "tighten" the machines so they generate more revenue. Spirit Mountain (Oregon coast) sure has great biscuits and gravy.

                      darroll

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                      • #56
                        Where is the orginal thread starter Omar? Haven't seen anymore posting from him. Did he loose interest?
                        Here is a little more Potowomecke history.

                        When the English made their settlement at Jamestown in VA in 1607 the Potowomeck(e) Tribe was part of the Powatan Confederacy(real name Wahunsunacawh) and was settled in several towns along what is now know as the Potomac River, in the present day countries of King George and Stafford County. The Potomoc River is named after the tribe. The Potowomecke were of Algonquian decent. Their leader, the Great King or Weorance of Potowomecke and his brother, Japasaw, the petty weoance and cheif at Passapatanzy, were related to the family of Powatan, father of Pocahontas. (real name Matoake Amunute, Lady Rebbecca Rolfe) In one early record 1615, Cheif Japasaw(my line)was called the son of Powatan and in a later record , 1622, he was called the brother of Opitchipam, one of the full bothers of Powatan. If Japasaw was indeeed a son of Powatan, which was quite logical, as Powatan set up many of his sons as weroances of the tribes under Powatan Confederacy, and married one of Powatans younger sisters, he would have also been a bother(bother in law of Opitchipam. It is beleived that Powhatans full brother Opechancannough, married his own ne ice, Cleopatra, daughter of Powatan. Some say that this is not too far fetched. Also another theory that Japasaw was Powatans and Opitchipams half brotherand married a daughter of Powatan, making him also a son(son in law )of powatan. I personally believe he was the brother of Powatan.(Wahunsunacawh) Part 2. Another time! Maria

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                        • #57
                          The Founders of Brazilian Genealogy were Portuguese with Tupi Indian women.
                          Tibiriçá, a Tupi Chief, was declared the Founder of São Paulo, he is buried in the Cripta of the City's Cathedral and he was entitled Lord Protector of São Paulo. One of his daughters was the common wife of João Ramalho and it's the starting point of the big Genealogia Paulistana, the origins of the Bandeirante families that conquered and colonized South and Central Brazil. In Bahia the couple was the Portuguese man Caramurú and his Indian "wife". In Pernambuco the Albuquerque family also had an Indian "wife" and they created a new elite in the Northeast. Brazilian traditional genealogy starts with the Tupi "blood" as a continuation of their presence even when phenotypes do not show them. Brazilians liked to write big Genealogias relating the ruling class to the early 16th Century Founders of the country as a symbol of status in an old aristocratic society of slaveholders .

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                          • #58
                            Fasinating!

                            Bracari
                            How very fascinating. Would love to hear more. Will have to do research on the Tupi Natives.
                            Maria

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                            • #59
                              Part 2.

                              Here is more on my tribe:
                              1260-1300AD The earliest recorded information about the Potowomeck Tribe was related in 1660, about 400 years after the fact, as interpeted by Thomas Matthews from the words of the brother of Uttapoingassienem, Empor of the Pistcatways. This important information related that 13 generations before, the tribes of the Piscataway, Sesquehanough, and Potowomeck and others were all under the same great leader also named Uttapoingassienem who had come from the eastern shore. He died without issue and was succedded by his brother, Quokonassaum. Other brothers followed in succesion. After the death of the last brother, the leadership fell to a sisters son. This patterne of discent was carried on for 13 generationswithout interruption untill the death of Kittamaquund, Emporor of the Piscataway, who was given the crown to his only daughter, Mary, the wife of Capt.Giles Brent(may be related to me. Wahangonoches(my line) son in laws mother was a Mercye Brent and may have been a relative of Giles Brent) The other Piscataways did not go along with this break in tradition and choose Weghucasso, a decendent of one of the brothers of the first Uttapoingassienem, as their King. Before his death,Weghucasso choose the current king of 1660, Uttaapoingassiem, a decendent of one of the first kings, to succeed him. From this we learn that the Potowomecke Tribe was once allied with the Piscataway and Susquehannocks, who were enemies in 1607. It is not know when the Potowomecke became a part of the Powatan Confederacy, as it was called in 1607.
                              Maria

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                              • #60
                                Dear Mary

                                Some more info







                                Tibiriçá, João Ramalho - Colonization of São Paulo - 19th Century Painting



                                João Ramalho and his son, Tibiriçá's grandson.



                                Tibiriçá's Mausoleum under the Sé Cathedral - São Paulo

                                A Cripta do Fundador



                                Tibiriçá's little tribe nowadays





                                "Genealogia Paulistana" on line
                                http://www.geocities.com/lscamargo/gp/genpaulistana.htm
                                9 Volumes
                                150.000 listed individuals in Brazil from the early 1500's to the early 1900's
                                One of the World's biggest genealogical database from the Tupi and Portuguese Founders of Brazil

                                Regards

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