American Indian admixture in White Americans

[purple flowers]

Al lewis Is supposed to be jewish .. his mom polish. grandma must have seen something familiar about his face.. or maybe it was just the name Lewis she was talking about..
al lewis looks so much like my husbands father who is a I1a and the brother sitting on the ground looks exactly like my great uncle who was also a Ross + my dads Mtdna ( but my dad when young looked more like Johnny Dep who's mom was indian too I am told) it probably the same mtdna as my grandma's . and may have been a Y line I1a also.. my daddy is a G , Johnny dep unknown y and my great uncle I1a could all pass as brothers.
but I have seen F's G's and J's and I's that look simular enough in their type , .. I do not know which of these Y lines carries or can carry red heads though. too interesting. but those are not Q men..

[rainbow]

At first I didn't know what you meant, but when I saw 'Munsters' I knew what you meant. I googled pics of Al Lewis who played 'Grandpa' on the tv show The Munsters. He does have a nose similar to the red robed Powhatan in the painting.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_PuuGSIIZ-bM/SADJm-H9f4I/AAAAAAAAAXI/h0UIo7O0fmk/s320/Al_lewis_green_party_video_2.png&imgrefurl=http://onthesets.blogspot.com/2008/04/munsters-tv-show-house.html&h=240&w=291&sz=136&hl=en&start=10&tbnid=BHtZu1GzZmtrGM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dal%2Blewis%2Bmunsters%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=al+lewis+munsters&gbv=2

But some English people also have noses like that. Maybe it's ancient Syrian admixture in the English population? (My DNA Tribes top match, at the moment, is Syrian). In the Pocahontas painting there is a man wearing armour, a child behind him is holding the helmet, the man looks like he has Syrian/Near Eastern roots (long nose and dark hair). I think that could be Rolfe.

The two men with red in their hair...I think that is red dye. Only the very top of their head is red. the sides are medium/light brown. They didn't have black hair, that's for sure. Earlier in this thread there was mention of Pocahontas before, and a different painting of her, with her son, where she looked very far/light-skinned, fairer than Mona Lisa of Italy, and I had said I thought she was part European, and I wonder who her mother was. But she looks different in the baptismal painting and doesn't look as fair. I love the material of that dress.

A while ago I found a picture of what looks to be a wax sculpture of three Cherokees that visited England, and two of them are very European-looking in their faces. If they changed into English clothes they would blend in without notice, especially the man in the middle.

http://i38.tinypic.com/675g5h.jpg

[rainbow]

Rainbow,

I would think that 17% Native American would have to be rather recent if not a fluke.

Beyond Carlisle, in 1900, there was an Educational Home for Indians in the 40th Ward of Philadelphia catering to men and a Lincoln Institution in the 7th Ward with co-ed population. And a general search of Pennsylvaia for that census year turns-up all sort so Indians in all sorts of places but primarily as domestics (women) or agricultural laborers (men). One of the important criticisms of the Indian schools was that they were training Indians not for 'advancement' but for subjugation as a servile class.

Hi Tomcat,

I think you're right. If not a fluke, it would have to be rather recent. I think my father's mother may have been secretly adopted, or something, and is about half Amerindian. I knew she had a sister and two brothers, but I didn't know their ages until I looked at the censuses, and I found that all were born over a decade after her parents married, so it's a bit more convincing to me that they would be adopted. If at least one child was born in the first 3 years, then I would think they were probably natural.

My mom has zero (0%) Native American on her test, but 5% East Asian that could actually be Native American. Even with the multiple Pocahontas lines that distant cousins online say we have, and maybe some added from a great great grandfather with an unknown family tree (white when he married in the late 1800s), that can possibly be my mom's 5% East Asian, that can't gve me 17% Native American.

My 17% would indicate that I have a fullblood great grandparent, on my father's side.

[rainbow]

There are censuses for 1790 and 1800, but not for New Jersey.

I found out that there was a census for New Jersey in 1790, but it was destroyed/burned during the War of 1812.

"Both the original and printed 1790 census schedules are available on microfilm for Connecticut, Maine (then part of Massachusetts), Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Vermont. The schedules for Delaware, Georgia, Kentucky, New Jersey, Tennessee, and Virginia were burned during the War of 1812 (there are substitutes for most of these). Published and microfilmed 1790 schedules for Virginia were reconstructed from state enumerations and tax lists."

http://www.familyhistory101.com/research-census/census1790.html

"1800 Federal Population Census Schedule
The 1800 census was begun on 4 August 1800. The count was to be completed within nine months. The States covered in this census are Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Vermont."

[purple flowers]

At first I didn't know what you meant, but when I saw 'Munsters' I knew what you meant. I googled pics of Al Lewis who played 'Grandpa' on the tv show The Munsters. He does have a nose similar to the red robed Powhatan in the painting.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_PuuGSIIZ-bM/SADJm-H9f4I/AAAAAAAAAXI/h0UIo7O0fmk/s320/Al_lewis_green_party_video_2.png&imgrefurl=http://onthesets.blogspot.com/2008/04/munsters-tv-show-house.html&h=240&w=291&sz=136&hl=en&start=10&tbnid=BHtZu1GzZmtrGM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dal%2Blewis%2Bmunsters%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...munsters&gbv=2 sorry but the " look" or "bone structure" of a I1a is a I1a or which ever Y haplogroup we are talking about .... with just the skin colors changing depending on mtdna lines around as presented in the groups intermarrying. but all I1a's mated with the same Mtdna lines wil produce the same rages of type ... just colors might change.. or maybe the ear size .
yes old man Powhatan looks nearly like the old gray haired man directly behind him.. but that does not mean anything recent in common . they obviuosly have common bone structure and thus maybe a shared happy group type .
either way happy group "I" men are not common is Spain where we are told they try to claim that Powhatan's paternal dna is from ( MAYBE), and that cleft in his chin screams "I" man. well someone is claiming is supposed to have come from 50 years before and from Florida . obviously Powhatan's daddy wasn't white or his mom was black L happygroup.. but the same kind of people claim corn blossom didn't exsist either , because there is no such thing words as corn blossoms.. but her name really means ( Parched Corn flour/ not flower ,I believe she was a red head too) and her offspring get a reserve in, I think TN or was it KY because of her death at yahoo falls. either way Powhatan is way darker than any "white" "I" Spaniard man should be , even with the heck of a tan.. the other boys are not tanned. either way someone has issues that have to be dealt with because there isn't a Asian or any Asian DNA anyplace near any of these people or their parents... so we definitely got some issues that will remain unresolved if they keep looking at Bering strait for the answers.




But some English people also have noses like that. Maybe it's ancient Syrian admixture in the English population? (My DNA Tribes top match, at the moment, is Syrian). yes I think so too... somethings middle easternand Meditareanian


In the Pocahontas painting there is a man wearing armour, a child behind him is holding the helmet, the man looks like he has Syrian/Near Eastern roots (long nose and dark hair). I think that could be Rolfe.
yes I asume the same . nice looking man.

The two men with red in their hair...I think that is red dye. Ochre (sp?)is a different color , brick colored .

I think they are red headed. what kind of hair dye did they have back then except Ochre(sp?) ?

" Only the very top of their head is red. the sides are medium/light brown."
Not in my computter it is red all the way down.

"They didn't have black hair, that's for sure. Earlier in this thread there was mention of Pocahontas before, and a different painting of her, with her son, where she looked very far/light-skinned, fairer than Mona Lisa of Italy, and I had said I thought she was part European, and I wonder who her mother was. But she looks different in the baptismal painting and doesn't look as fair. I love the material of that dress." everything is so clear.. the sister looks very much like my grandma

A while ago I found a picture of what looks to be a wax sculpture of three Cherokees that visited England, and two of them are very European-looking in their faces. If they changed into English clothes they would blend in without notice, especially the man in the middle.

http://i38.tinypic.com/675g5h.jpg

gosh I do not know who these men are . or whioch trip .
if you find out let me know please! thanks
if I get a new photobucket account or remember my password I will post a picture of my great uncle so you can see how he matches the pouting brother.

[rainbow]

gosh I do not know who these men are . or whioch trip .
if you find out let me know please! thanks
if I get a new photobucket account or remember my password I will post a picture of my great uncle so you can see how he matches the pouting brother.

I think the one in armour is Rolfe. I think the one with the bird on his head is Pocahontas/Rebecca's father or the spiritual leader/elder. I wonder if the baby being held by the sister is the sister's or Pocahontas' child. The man pouting could be a brother, or the sister's husband, or Pocahontas's unknown former boyfriend (if she had one. my imagination is running here). The the standing barefoot man in red could be Pocahontas' brother or unknown boyfriend. He is depicted wearing red, just as Rofle is. Other than red as a leadership color, it is also the color of 'romantic love'. And it's the color of war. I don't know what the hourglass in the upper right corner signifies, or the small swirl of cloud so near to the window.

That picture actually influenced my dream last night. Gave me a nightmare. It was about a bird that kept bothering me and kept getting on my head. I was terrified of it and kept trying to get the bird off of me. It was a black bird/ raven. Ever see the Hitchcock movie "The Birds"? . I was afraid it was gonna peck my eyes out. What a weird dream. When I got it off me, or it got off me when my mom shows up in the dream, it disappears. The only bird around was a peaceful looking dove/pigeon standing on the ground. But it was hairy.

Speaking of birds, my paternal grandmother, who I think was adopted, was an artist for Stangl in Flemington. She painted birds.

http://home.att.net/~Stangl.In.Va3/Birds/BirdInitials.html

Her initials are her maiden name, she was a teenager then.

[rainbow]

And I remembered that my grandmother's father had tuberculosis after he married and nearly died. I googled tuberculosis and found out it can make a man sterile, just like the mumps.

[purple flowers]

let's not rule out the possibility that your mom's mtdna line has been predetermined and uploaded into dna computers as a white/ Euro ... just like these probably" I-ish " men's dna is and haplogroups are now as well as a few months ago X3 women were once also ..
so I can say for sure, there is still lots they do not know and can not explain as of now.
that is for sure!!!!!!
that is the only thing for sure..
I think all the rest is all still up for grabs..

ON the " I didn't know who" I was talking about the Wax men.

[rainbow]

let's not rule out the possibility that your mom's mtdna line has been predetermined and uploaded into dna computers as a white/ Euro ... just like these probably" I-ish " men's dna is and haplogroups are now as well as a few months ago X3 women were once also ..
so I can say for sure, there is still lots they do not know and can not explain as of now.
that is for sure!!!!!!
that is the only thing for sure..
I think all the rest is all still up for grabs..

ON the " I didn't know who" I was talking about the Wax men.

Oh, the three Wax men. I just googled them again and they were a Cherokee delegation that traveled to London and met King George III of England in 1762.

Here is a link talking about it, without the wax photo.
It says 'Chief Ostenaco' and two other men named Cunneshote and Woyi.

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:cVfem6kFFwcJ:www.neh.gov/news/humanities/2005-09/strangers.html+cherokee+london&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us

[purple flowers]

it would be my assumption that Rebecca would have to be baptized before she could marry Mr.Rolfe, thus would there be children ? and how come I thought their son was born in Europe/ england or wales maybe.. someplace, maybe ?

[rainbow]

it would be my assumption that Rebecca would have to be baptized before she could marry Mr.Rolfe, thus would there be children ? and how come I thought their son was born in Europe/ england or wales maybe.. someplace, maybe ?

I guess she was baptised and married on the same day.
I googled and wikipedia says their son, born in Virginia, was born the year after they married.
"They were married on April 5, 1614. Pocahontas was christened Lady Rebecca. For a few years after the marriage, the couple lived together at Rolfe's plantation, Varina Farms, which was located across the James River from the new community of Henricus. They had a child, Thomas Rolfe, born on January 30, 1615."

So I guess the little boy in the baptism painting is her sister's child.

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:TYkFCiiF9WQJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas+pocahontas+son&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Sorry about that.
I had thought he was born earlier since he looks older in another painting of them, when they were living in England.

[GregKiroKHR1bL1]

I was thinking to wait awhile before testing again because my percentages change from 88% to 10%, and in my mind this should never happen. I am happy it is working out for some people, really

If it's anything like mine, then it'll change. My results changed with every update. The only constants were Portugal and Piemonte, Italy and Syria and Denmark and Flemish. Maybe a few more, I don't recall right now. But now, after the 21 markers, it matches my AncestryByDna percentages.

[purple flowers]

I guess she was baptised and married on the same day.
I googled and wikipedia says their son, born in Virginia, was born the year after they married.
"They were married on April 5, 1614. Pocahontas was christened Lady Rebecca's. For a few years after the marriage, the couple lived together at Rolfe's plantation, Varina Farms, which was located across the James River from the new community of Henricus. They had a child, Thomas Rolfe, born on January 30, 1615."

So I guess the little boy in the baptism painting is her sister's child.

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:TYkFCiiF9WQJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas+pocahontas+son&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Sorry about that.
I had thought he was born earlier since he looks older in another painting of them, when they were living in England.

thanks for the leads! I don't think I have read wikipedia's info on her either.

actually I thought it was great that she was baptized later and not at gun point either... she may have actually wanted to get baptized ... that is too
gosh I don't know why I thought Thomas was born in Europe.. humm. I guess I need to re read that . maybe tomorrow I will get pictures of my dads side set up so you can see my great uncle.
he looks so much like the pouting man/kin.

[purple flowers]

to me the pouting man, couldn't have looked closer if they had actaully tried to paint my great uncle's face ..including the widows peek point in the hair line is the
same too.
it is soo spooky to look at these old photos and find faces you know and are familiar with ..

[rainbow]

to me the pouting man, couldn't have looked closer if they had actaully tried to paint my great uncle's face ..including the widows peek point in the hair line is the
same too.
it is soo spooky to look at these old photos and find faces you know and are familiar with ..

Yes, they do look a lot a like. Those are very nice photos. Thanks for sharing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Baptism_of_Pocahontas.jpg