American Indian admixture in White Americans

[rainbow]

One does find Indians denominated as Mulatto and Other but those Italians are the first error on the other side of the ledger - denominating a European as non-European - that I have found.

I do think the ones listed in Burlington County are Indians, becasue that is the area that a group of indians were relocated to.
And I do think that the Indians listed for Mercer county are actual Indians. Mercer County is where Hamilton is, and that is the place where all the 1910 Sioux were living. There is one listed in Hunterdon County, a Manis Screarner, I haven't found anything at all about that surname, but that is the county my grandmother was from. And if you ever heard of Stockton Indians, that is in todays Hunterdon County. there is a Burlington County and there is a Burlington Township. The Burlington Township, that has Stockton, is in Hunterdon County. Each County has various twps (townships). Hunterdon County has a Raritan Township, and within Raritan Twp there is Flemington.

Also, the county boundaries seemed to have shifted/overlapped/made into smaller counties. I don't know the specifics of all but it seems that areas that were in Morris are now in Hunterdon. Areas that were in Somerset County are in Hunterdon. A person who was born in and died in Morris county a hundred years ago and is listed as buried in 'Morris' may actually be in present-day Hunterdon.
I haven't found everyone of my ancestors on my paternal grandmothers side. In freepages/rootsweb there is someone listed with the same name as my great grandmother, and I think that may be her line, but I'm not 100% certain. That family line has one person named 'Elizabeth' in the 1700s listed as a 'Lenni Lenape', who was a consort (doesn't say wife) to a German. But those listings are put there by people who have researched their family tree. There are many more women who are listed with just a first name with no added notations of them being Lenni Lenape or English or German. So the ones with just a first name and no other info added may or may not also be Indian wives of the settlers. I had read that that area had a large contingent of German settlers after 1749. Another German in my tree came over with his wife and children, but she soon died and he remarried, but I don't have a full name of the new wife, just a first name.

It's too bad the census doesn't go back to around 1800 or 1790 because I think that is when the intermarriages occurred. A good portion of the local population would have been half Indian and half German by 1800. And then they intermarried over the years. A lot of/ most of the families are interrelated because I've seen the same surnmes show up on various lines.

Then there is chance that it is recent. Maybe my grandmother was adopted? My grandmother was born May 31, 1928.

[rainbow]

Link to 1930 New Jersey census:

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1930usfedcen&so=2&rank=1&gsfn=&gsln=&=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&_8000c002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&prox=1&ti=0&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&gskw=New+Jersey+Indian&sbo=1

I think some of the Indians with Italian names listed in the 1930 census really are Indian, because they are listed as have being born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma.

Barisio was born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma.
Mumma was born in New Mexico.
Angiolino was born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma.
Sauro was born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma.
Cilento ".
Chiazazzi ".
Labarca ".
Gulino ".
Etzo ".



Many in the 1930 NJ census listed as Indian were born in British Indian Ocean Territory. That is the area between India and Africa. Maybe they are descendants of American Indians who were on the British side of the American Revolution and after the British lost the war some of the American Indians were sent to British Indian Ocean Territory, maybe to work, And then some of their descendants moved back to the US. That could also explain why some people in India get Native American results.



There is a Morton lised as being born in "Iritish West Indian" which I think means British West Indian, and that is the Caribbean. There is also Anthony and Watindow as "British East Indian". That means there were from the British areas of the Caribbean.

[marvallen]

Census enumerators are known to have inevertantly induced errors in their tabulations and all information should be cross referenced to other types of records, etc., for verification.

[purple flowers]

Looking at the previous message from Purple Flowers, it reminds me of things I've heard around these parts. The Coast Salish (e.g. Lummi) engaged in capturing slaves in the Pacific NW, along with other language groups in the region, prior to settlement. There is apparently a strong inner sanctum of clans who exclude descendants of captives ("those without a history"). Whether or not that segregation includes (white, black, Hawaiian) mixed bloods from later times, I don't know.

remember that every war meant even hundreds of widows in tribes who only had hundreds... there was never a shortage a women/widows and that would be prime picking for slavers..

[tomcat]

There is an interesting tidbit in the July 5, 2008 issue of "Science News" about the date verification of those old human footprints in volcanic ash in Mexico. They're 40,000 years old! No wonder there were so many different languages in the Americas. They had plenty of time to evolve.

Or, you can find another scientific analysis that persuasively argues that the diversity of Native languages is an indicator of comparative youth of Natives on these continents - that a LONGER history would have resulted in fewer, language families.

On the other hand, older language families might have been exterminated by later arrivals.

[tomcat]

Census enumerators are known to have inevertantly induced errors in their tabulations and all information should be cross referenced to other types of records, etc., for verification.

Their are 8 HIEL's in the 1900 census index (HeritageQuest) listed as White yet all are students are Carlisle and enumerated there as 100% Oneida, Sioux, Seneca or Onondaga. You can also find correctly indexed HIEL's in NY and WI for the same year that are 100% Seneca and Oneida respectively.

Enumerator errors are merely interesting, indexers' errors are unforgiveable. Sometimes you don't get what you paid for.

[rainbow]

Their are 8 HIEL's in the 1900 census index (HeritageQuest) listed as White yet all are students are Carlisle and enumerated there as 100% Oneida, Sioux, Seneca or Onondaga. You can also find correctly indexed HIEL's in NY and WI for the same year that are 100% Seneca and Oneida respectively.

Enumerator errors are merely interesting, indexers' errors are unforgiveable. Sometimes you don't get what you paid for.

I've never been in a census. I've never been interviewed or sent a form. I think the enumerators either skip over people or put what they want to put. My mom remembers a census person when I was little, but that's the only time. Why do I get tons of junk mail, and catalogs I never asked for, but I never get a census in the mail?

The HIEL's you mentioned as being listed as white....maybe they were half white and looked white. I googled pics of Cherokee Chief Wilma Mankiller, and she looks white. She looks like the average white person. But she knows she has a Cherokee father. I read that her father is 100% (fullblood) Cherokee and her mother is white. She was raised Cherokee and that is her culture, but if she didn't know her father was Native American she would be raised white. It goes to show that a person who is half Indian and half white looks white. That is what I feel/think happened on a larger scale in New Jersey. Maybe in other states too, but I'm focused on NJ because that is where my 17% comes from. My mom from PA has zero (her mom was from NC), so that means my father would be 34%, but his father was Czechoslovakian so that means it's from my NJ grandmother whose family has been there since colonial times. Or she was adopted. They started having kids late in life and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if all were adopted. But the average person looks like Wilma Mankiller, and some are darker than her. There are people in Hunterdon, NJ that look almost fullblooded. But culturally they are all white.

There are censuses for 1790 and 1800, but not for New Jersey.

[tomcat]

...
Enumerator errors are merely interesting, indexers' errors are unforgiveable. Sometimes you don't get what you paid for.

Here's another example of what to watch for when searching for Indians in the census. In 1900 a David Hiles, Cherokee, was enumerated in OK. In 1910 his index surname is Indian Hyles David, and in 1920 David Hyles. So there are two different spellings of the European surname and in 1910 the European surname is supceded by the Race/Color classification - one can't raise him by searching for Hiles or Hyles. If you are looking for Indians in 1910 use Indian as surname if working with HeritageQuest.

[purple flowers]

well my ggg grandma who is 1/2 American slave( with native), 1/2 full blooded Cherokee, passes as white in 5 states...
I think the Enumerators at least out in OH and AR and KY , IN, MO were told to be loose with the "white" designations. maybe because they wanted to be designated as "white" too.
and or I am not positive my grandma was present at each time a census was taken.. there is always at least some major errors, like the kids were doing the census. that may be how some people got around the whole "colors" issues was to let others give the info .
I also think everyone was much darker skin tones back then. especially in the summers when censuses are taken. Everyone gardened and every one road a horse or carriage to and from town , and everyone lived outside more than now days, they just all got more sun . and I may be light compared to some natives but I also know how dark I can get with just a little sun.
so I think white was less about skin colors and more about strait hair or curly hair and certain traits , not just skin colors.

[darroll]

The people that did the censuses were law enforcement people. They would look at a person and list the color that they saw. If a family was not home they would ask the neighbors.
On the reservations or the areas where they lived, they would go with Indian no matter who they were. If they saw a Black person they listed black.

[PDHOTLEN]

three legs

Off the main subject again. It seems to me that there are three legs to stand on, when investigating prehistory: Archaeology, historical linguistics, and now DNA. And it is just coming together, both in the Americas and in the "old world." The Horse, wheel & Language book takes on two of the three legs (for Eurasia).

R1a1* & U5b2

[Johnserrat]

Paleobotany is also quite useful in determining when agriculture entered a region.

John

[PDHOTLEN]

hmm, yeah

The historical linguistics, and shown in the Horse, wheel,... book, reveals plants & animals that were found in the Proto-Indo-European homeland (Pontic Steppes region). It's interesting that honey bee was included; and that the honey bee was not found east of the Ural Mountains.

R1a1* & U5b2

[purple flowers]

no honey bees in asia?
ROTF, for real?

what pollinates their crops there?

dang if this is true....I sure do like my latest theory even more now.!!
way too funny..
and we have honey bees here, veeeeeeeeery interesting..

[purple flowers]

The people that did the censuses were law enforcement people. They would look at a person and list the color that they saw. If a family was not home they would ask the neighbors.
On the reservations or the areas where they lived, they would go with Indian no matter who they were. If they saw a Black person they listed black.

Darroll have you ever been a census taker?
I do not know if it was the same back then as now. buit now days
you ask that question and you allow them to answer it.. it is about " self identification" not imposing our veiws of "race" on someone else..
I do not know if that is how it was in the past or not. but with slave catchers running around .. no one brownish ,,,,in their right mind would not have self identify as anything except white.. unless you liked slavery that is.
that same grandma's nieces were stolen in IT .. and the tribe had to go track the theives.. they got the two girls back, probably not in the same condition they were taken in...