American Indian admixture in White Americans

[tomcat]

Rainbow,

I would think that 17% Native American would have to be rather recent if not a fluke.

Beyond Carlisle, in 1900, there was an Educational Home for Indians in the 40th Ward of Philadelphia catering to men and a Lincoln Institution in the 7th Ward with co-ed population. And a general search of Pennsylvaia for that census year turns-up all sort so Indians in all sorts of places but primarily as domestics (women) or agricultural laborers (men). One of the important criticisms of the Indian schools was that they were training Indians not for 'advancement' but for subjugation as a servile class.

[rainbow]

I haven't been able to see censuses like that. How do you search for it?

Finally got to see something on ancestry.com.

I looked at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Then I looked for New Jersey. There are 93 Indians (Native Americans) in the 1900 census of New Jersey. Most have Italian names.
Now I'm wondering if Native Americans took Italian names, or if the census taker put what he thought the person being interviewed was because of a darker appearance?

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=&gsln=&=&f19=New+Jersey&f20=&f21=&f14=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f16=&f9=&f10=Indian&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f23=&f22=&gskw=&prox=1&db=1900usfedcen&ti=0&ti.si=0&gl=&gss=ERROR&gst=&so=3

I'll look for later decades. Thank you Tomcat.

[rainbow]

Wow, this is interesting. 1930 New Jersey census. Some people listed as born in New Jersey are listed as living in other states, and some people living in New Jersey were born in Indian Territory, Oklahoma, while others were from the British Indian Ocean Territory (that's India Indian, not Native American Indian), and I found British West Indian (that is from the Caribbean. Maybe that's why I match Puerto Rico and Brazil in my DNATribes global matches?).

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1930usfedcen&so=2&rank=1&gsfn=&gsln=&=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&_8000c002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&prox=1&ti=0&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&gskw=New+Jersey+Indian&sbo=1

And I'm thinking maybe my grandmother was adopted. Her mom was 39 when she was born. Her father was 36. She had an older sister, 6 years older, and a younger brother. There was another brother, don't know if he was older or younger.

[rainbow]

well you might be missing a very important element to native eastern culture...Tuccamirgan's kids and he himself may have started using the name Case, not just o honor Mr case. these families seem very very close... but also to maybe link or protect them in business and trade etc when in whiter society. like saying " I'm a friend and associate of case" thus taking or using his name sometimes or when need may have stuck in the whole Indian family.
read about how he got his name... same thing or ideas. you can search for these names and get more details about why native adopted white folks names if you need more info . heck the whole tribe coudl have used it at times..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Boudinot_%28Cherokee%29

( hum and I wonder if his wife took anyone with her back to Germany)

The kids he had with his first wife was before he left Germany. Case had more kids after he moved to New Jersey, by a second wife (and by other women?)

I wonder if Case called Tuccamirgan 'Tuck'. Tuck is a surname in New Jersey. Or if Tuccamirgan's name was pronounced like 'Took', then another option would be 'Tewksbury'. Tewksbury is a surname and place name in Hunterdon, New Jersey. Phonetically it makes sense. Both Tuck and Tewksbury are English/British names, so if the Amerindians/Lenape living there wanted to adopt an English name then those would be easy choices, since it also represents/honors Tuccamirgan.

[rainbow]

There is another place called Scott Case Farm.

[purple flowers]

The kids he had with his first wife was before he left Germany. Case had more kids after he moved to New Jersey, by a second wife (and by other women?)

I wonder if Case called Tuccamirgan 'Tuck'. Tuck is a surname in New Jersey. Or if Tuccamirgan's name was pronounced like 'Took', then another option would be 'Tewksbury'. Tewksbury is a surname and place name in Hunterdon, New Jersey. Phonetically it makes sense. Both Tuck and Tewksbury are English/British names, so if the Amerindians/Lenape living there wanted to adopt an English name then those would be easy choices, since it also represents/honors Tuccamirgan.

so your not a case?
do you have some of the names from in that time period?
can you share them with us? maybe someone can recognize potential native lines?
yes any native name could be changed to just anything.. and I do mean anything.... most logical would first .. translations of a family name first.. like.
THE big fish, Sturgeon, black fish or just "Fish"
then war efforts or war victories,( st clair, 6 killer , man killer , chickasaw killer etc ) then friends .
or authority positions or clans
raven , white owls, turtles , bear , deer, etc
these are most logical .. but this name thing is never logical....

[PDHOTLEN]

Deerslayer

I'm just reading the old novel: "The Deerslayer" by James Fenimore Cooper" (Dover reprint). I noticed in the introduction that any Indian (Native American) caught consorting with a white female in that era would probably have been imprisoned or lynched! And those "Leather Stocking" tales took place in and around New York State - not down south somewhere.

[purple flowers]

Mr hotlen I do not understand your question or statement.
there was just not many white women who were captured ... every one of those are remembered and written about and written about and written about.. because a Chief most likely married her in order to learn the language and the life style in order to better understand the enemy that was trying to destroy them. not unlike John ROLF when he married Pocahontas... white men had been doing that all along..
but a white woman kids may not have been adopted into one of the clans ever. sometimes they were. but sometimes not .
also some head native clans women would not adopt female whites and they would all be killed or run off . and any woman who married a white man from that clan was disowned and run off. so it was kind of ugly every way because it was about something we do not really understand sometimes in our society.. something called survival.
rainbow I did not give you northern people names but just examples of how names can " mutate" or just appear and why.

[tomcat]

...
I looked at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
Then I looked for New Jersey. There are 93 Indians (Native Americans) in the 1900 census of New Jersey. Most have Italian names.
Now I'm wondering if Native Americans took Italian names, or if the census taker put what he thought the person being interviewed was because of a darker appearance? ...

It is an error on the part of the census eumerator and the indexers of the microfilms. Those Italians are Italian and not Indian.

[tomcat]

It is an error on the part of the census eumerator and the indexers of the microfilms. Those Italians are Italian and not Indian.

The enumerators' error was the introduction of the Race/Color term Italian/It and the indexers' error was in reading that notation as Indian when the individuals are obviously Italian.

[rainbow]

The enumerators' error was the introduction of the Race/Color term Italian/It and the indexers' error was in reading that notation as Indian when the individuals are obviously Italian.

My imagination went wild before you responded. I already thought of numerous people from New Jersey who say they are part Italian, as being part Native American in disguise: Bruce Springsteen, Susan Sarandon, possibly Jack Nicholson, etc.

[tomcat]

One does find Indians denominated as Mulatto and Other but those Italians are the first error on the other side of the ledger - denominating a European as non-European - that I have found.

[PDHOTLEN]

RE social hierarchy in "Indian" societies

Looking at the previous message from Purple Flowers, it reminds me of things I've heard around these parts. The Coast Salish (e.g. Lummi) engaged in capturing slaves in the Pacific NW, along with other language groups in the region, prior to settlement. There is apparently a strong inner sanctum of clans who exclude descendants of captives ("those without a history"). Whether or not that segregation includes (white, black, Hawaiian) mixed bloods from later times, I don't know.

[tomcat]

The Cherokee dumped the Cherokee Freedmen. Recently. The Indian Nations are sovereign and can set their own rules for membership. They do. Rules might have been different in the past. Exceptions could have been justifiedly made for the exceptional. Tribes diminished by war or disease or facing an opportunity the exploitation of which required more members might have been more inclusive. It ain't about SURVIVAL it is about politics and economics.

[PDHOTLEN]

off subject - old footprints in MX

There is an interesting tidbit in the July 5, 2008 issue of "Science News" about the date verification of those old human footprints in volcanic ash in Mexico. They're 40,000 years old! No wonder there were so many different languages in the Americas. They had plenty of time to evolve.