American Indian admixture in White Americans

[kawashkar]

...
also you keep saying 1421 is baloney but where is your proof to say its not when there is plenty of proof on there site.
..

Well, I am not the only one that classify the book "1421" along with the fantasy stuff of library. Most anthropologists and historians do. There is plenty of critics on it you can find along the net, for free.

[rainbow]

Here is a link from another link from the East Asian thread

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10091255?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez. Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.P ubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles& dbfrom=pubmed

[purple flowers]

Besides that, the rest is pretty clearly established. That's the way science works:

concesus does not equal truth. concesus is only concensus... it woudl not be the first world wide deception, nor will it be the last.
if a muslim scientists can prove mecca is the center of the world anyone can prove anything useing anything to do it. agenda driven sceince is just that ..
check out the book
"Bones" if you want some major contradtions to everyones ideas and to see what is going on " behind the scene... the point is they don't have a clue !
the stories will stand in the end.

[purple flowers]

concesus does not equal truth. concesus is only concensus... it woudl not be the first world wide deception, nor will it be the last.
if a muslim scientists can prove mecca is the center of the world anyone can prove anything useing anything to do it. agenda driven sceince is just that ..
check out the book
"Bones" if you want some major contradtions to everyones ideas and to see what is going on " behind the scene... the point is they don't have a clue !
the stories will stand in the end.

Written by Elaine Dewar
Category: Social Science - Anthropology; History; Current Affairs
Format: Trade Paperback, 640 pages
Publisher: Vintage Canada
ISBN: 978-0-679-31154-6 (0-679-31154-8)

Pub Date: November 27, 2001
Price: $24.

[darroll]

i agree.........
d

[kawashkar]

Changing a scientific theory is easy: just prove it is false.

So far, nobody has done that with the Bering theory. Even more, it is very well established and all the evidence that comes reinforces it.

Too bad for political ideologies, but so far Amerindians came from East Asia, not from London or Timbuctu.

[tomcat]

Written by Elaine Dewar
Category: Social Science - Anthropology; History; Current Affairs
Format: Trade Paperback, 640 pages
Publisher: Vintage Canada
ISBN: 978-0-679-31154-6 (0-679-31154-8)

Pub Date: November 27, 2001
Price: $24.

Average 3 1/2 stars on Amazon and available used for as little as $4.75. Dewar is a journalist. Anyone got a reference to a book on the same subject that involves genetics?

[tomcat]

Craniofacial variation in Native Americans. A reconcilation of morphologic and genetic-based theories of colonization.

thttp://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119140936/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

[rainbow]

I googled Lenape on wikipedia. Someone updated it this week.
I looked carefully at the painting. What can't be spoken can be expressed in art.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenape

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nj/state/Lenape.htm

According to the map(s) , the area my fathers side is from was home to the Unami (Turtle clan).

Well, as I said before, since my mom has zero Native American on her DNAPrint AncestryByDna test, I guess that means my New Jersey father would be about 34% Native American, more or less. DNAPrint says their Native American markers coincide with/is the same thing as Central Asian markers.

This is in my current signature, but since I change it often I'll post it here:


AncestryByDna : 83% European & 17% Native American.

Fathers side (NJ) : Czechoslovakian, Dutch, English, Scottish, French, & German (Alsace). Found 1 Lenni Lenape, late 1700s.

Mothers side (PA) : Mostly English (Jute & Norman), Scottish, with some Welsh, French, Swiss, & German (Alsace).

Since my mom has zero NA on her test, that means that my father, from northwestern New Jersey, of Colonial American ancestry, could have 34% Native American ancestry, more or less.

MtDNA : H1

[tomcat]

Indian Schools

The topic of Indian Schools has been touched upon in this and other threads and I wanted to share that is quite easy to locate them in the online census db's (Ancestry, Heritage Quest). Simply choose a census year, a state, specify an age range (school age, that could be as old as early twenties) and race (Indian or Other). Some schools, such as Haskell in Kansas and Carlisle in Pennsylvania drew students from all over the country, from all tribes, others are limited to local populations. You can find government and church-sponsored Indian schools of all sizes in many states. I recommend that you 'page back' until you find the page with administrators and work forward from there.

[rainbow]

Other than countless generations of Lenape & European intermarriage, which is what I'm leaning towards, here are links pointing to the closest possibility of how there can be Native American ancestry in white people from New Jersey:

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page1.htm

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/siouxcensus/

[tomcat]

Why stop there? Just enter search terms; 'Indian-Pennsylvania-1900' and see how many different Indians of different geographical origins were present in Pennsylvania in that census year. Do the same for 1880 census year or any other census year you choose or any other state you choose.

Is there some big plus to being Lenape over being Apache?

[rainbow]

Hi Tomcat,

I know there where people from many different tribes in Pennsylvania because I saw them listed in the carlisle link. The Carlisle link that lists Apache is only the first page. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and you'll see "NEXT -->" and then click on that to see page two. There are eleven pages of Carlisle Indian students, with the tribes in alphabetical order, and the students names in alphabetical order within each tribe represented.

Unless there was some secret adoption of a Carlisle child on my paternal grandmothers side of the family about a hundred years ago, I think the most likely explanation for my AncestryByDna score is that there was a lot of assimilation and intermarriage during colonial times. Could be a combination of Wappinger and Delaware and Mahican and Iroquois, etc. Yes, I know Lenape/Delaware were pushed/ moved westward, but I still feel there were at least some individuals that stayed in New Jersey and assimilated into white culture and they had children with the white settlers.
From photos I've seen of some people from the area(s) my fathers mother was from, I do think the population looks partly Native American. But then again, this is on my mind a lot, so maybe I'm seeing more than there is.

One website I found on google has pamphlets about different areas and time periods and events in New Jersey. My fathers mothers side has roots in several NJ counties, but my grandmother was from Flemington, the town her mothers family was from.

http://www.digitalantiquaria.com/servlet/Detail?no=36&sfs=f2fee219

"Indians of Hunterdon County (Philhower 1926) NJ

by Prof. Charles A. Philhower (NJHS 1926)

Evidence of Indian occupation and the persistence of Indian place names makes Hunterdon county one of the most significant in New Jersey. Original purchases from 1680 to 1760 are recounted, as are descriptions of early Indian villages. Prominent chiefs Moses Totamy, Teedyuscung, Tuccamirgan and others are noted. Traditions and anecdotes recounted. (Booklet: 8.5" x 5.5", 24pp, map "


I found out more about Tuccamirgan. His wife was childless. He was friends with the white settler Case, who had purchased land in Flemington from William Penn's sons. There were a lot of Indians living in that area, but I don't know their names, I only know of the famous one.
My grandmother lived in walking distance from where Chief Tuccamirgin is buried. He was buried on Case's land.

Here a link with info on Chief Tuccamirgan:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GScid=1995712&GRid=9608066&

I'm wondering if some of Case's children were actually, biologically, Tuccamirgan's kids. Or if later generations intermarried with Lenape. I can't help but wonder if there are any Case direct male descendants that have done ydna tests.

I found a photo of a woman on findagrave who has at least 3 of the same family names I have on my paternal grandmothers side, and she looks more than half Amerindian to me.

Either that or there were a whole lot of Central Asian markers in some of the Europeans that immigrated to America and moved to New Jersey.

[rainbow]

Case's first wife died in Germany.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GScid=1995712&GRid=11882504&

[purple flowers]

Hi Tomcat,


I found out more about Tuccamirgan. His wife was childless. He was friends with the white settler Case, who had purchased land in Flemington from William Penn's sons. There were a lot of Indians living in that area, but I don't know their names, I only know of the famous one.
My grandmother lived in walking distance from where Chief Tuccamirgin is buried. He was buried on Case's land.

Here a link with info on Chief Tuccamirgan:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GScid=1995712&GRid=9608066&

I'm wondering if some of Case's children were actually, biologically, Tuccamirgan's kids. Or if later generations intermarried with Lenape. I can't help but wonder if there are any Case direct male descendants that have done ydna tests.

I found a photo of a woman on findagrave who has at least 3 of the same family names I have on my paternal grandmothers side, and she looks more than half Amerindian to me.

Either that or there were a whole lot of Central Asian markers in some of the Europeans that immigrated to America and moved to New Jersey.

well you might be missing a very important element to native eastern culture...Tuccamirgan's kids and he himself may have started using the name Case, not just o honor Mr case. these families seem very very close... but also to maybe link or protect them in business and trade etc when in whiter society. like saying " I'm a friend and associate of case" thus taking or using his name sometimes or when need may have stuck in the whole Indian family.
read about how he got his name... same thing or ideas. you can search for these names and get more details about why native adopted white folks names if you need more info . heck the whole tribe coudl have used it at times..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Boudinot_%28Cherokee%29

( hum and I wonder if his wife took anyone with her back to Germany)