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  • Originally posted by darroll
    They couldn't of got lost as they brought their women with them.
    darroll
    hehehe ,,,, that is too cute Darroll! My husband cracked up too!

    yes some tribes came from asia.. by boats somehow and sotherne asia has the same dna as northern asia so they can't prove a dang thing.


    but lets have them tell us how Asian this chick looks?
    anyone trying to claim there is white admixture should be shot , it is Pocohantas! there is lots more pictures of her with curly almost blondish or reddish hair (gosh kinda like mine) it is at her baptism.. her dad and sister and brothers all there but less clear ... you know the artists were picked had to be very exact back then, because they were recorders of history.. my dad side traces to one of her sisters too..
    Last edited by purple flowers; 15 April 2008, 03:01 PM.

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    • Pocahontas; was she part Spanish?

      Pocahontas' genealogy.

      The history of her father is that he migrated north from the then 110-year-old Spanish colony in Florida and that he may have been of Spanish & Seminole DNA blend. He was far more politically proactive than was customary in the Algonkian culture, hence the rare imperial style of his regime. Shades of the Conquistadors?
      There had been four or five generations of interbreeding time in Florida.
      All that may account for the several Spanish words found in the Virginian-Algonkian language branch spoken in the Powhatan Federation, as written down by Smith's recording clerk in 1610. And some clue as to why Pocahontas unlike her sisters, so readily adopted the colonists. Euro-American inter-breeding began at least a century before the Virginia Company and Plymouth Rock.

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      • Originally posted by derinos
        Pocahontas' genealogy.

        The history of her father is that he migrated north from the then 110-year-old Spanish colony in Florida and that he may have been of Spanish & Seminole DNA blend. He was far more politically proactive than was customary in the Algonkian culture, hence the rare imperial style of his regime. Shades of the Conquistadors?
        There had been four or five generations of interbreeding time in Florida.
        All that may account for the several Spanish words found in the Virginian-Algonkian language branch spoken in the Powhatan Federation, as written down by Smith's recording clerk in 1610. And some clue as to why Pocahontas unlike her sisters, so readily adopted the colonists. Euro-American inter-breeding began at least a century before the Virginia Company and Plymouth Rock.
        they were sea people... who came from the med .. they could have shared a few words.. so
        ok that is speculation and no proof... but maybe it is possible, but not probable.
        and even then the percentage of white would still be very low. 100 year 5 generations maybe ... with one white ancestor?
        what I will give you is it is obvious her fathers Y is not an asian dna line.. the package is not asian that does not mean it isn't native... it is just not asian ...
        so can I shoot you now ( because I can show you a bunch of imperialistic Indians long long time before one non native was every here. Inca and toltec and Mayan etc etc .
        and mostly allllllllll SEA peoples !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! culture were very imperialistic, they ruled the whole world by trade ... they gave up ruling the world and came here and started circumnavigating each other .... the imperalism was in their bones....
        Last edited by purple flowers; 15 April 2008, 07:02 PM.

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        • Originally posted by purple flowers
          ... yes some tribes came from asia.. by boats somehow and sotherne asia has the same dna as northern asia so they can't prove a dang thing.

          but lets have them tell us how Asian this chick looks? anyone trying to claim there is white admixture should be shot , it is Pocohantas! there is lots more pictures of her with curly almost blondish or reddish hair (gosh kinda like mine) it is at her baptism.. her dad and sister and brothers all there but less clear ... you know the artists were picked had to be very exact back then, because they were recorders of history.. my dad side traces to one of her sisters too..
          Spaniards reached the Caribbean in 1492...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by derinos
            Pocahontas' genealogy.

            The history of her father is that he migrated north from the then 110-year-old Spanish colony in Florida and that he may have been of Spanish & Seminole DNA blend. He was far more politically proactive than was customary in the Algonkian culture, hence the rare imperial style of his regime. Shades of the Conquistadors?
            There had been four or five generations of interbreeding time in Florida.
            All that may account for the several Spanish words found in the Virginian-Algonkian language branch spoken in the Powhatan Federation, as written down by Smith's recording clerk in 1610. And some clue as to why Pocahontas unlike her sisters, so readily adopted the colonists. Euro-American inter-breeding began at least a century before the Virginia Company and Plymouth Rock.
            That make sense. If so, Pocahontas wasn't pure Indigenous, but mixed. Genetically closer to modern Mexicans and other Latinos, rather than to the Ancient Amerindian race.

            Pure Indian people looks Asiatic. Tell me about it. I live in Southern South America, in Chile, and our pure Native people looks Asian. The average Chilean also has some slight Asiatic blend in a mainly European phenotype.

            But we also have mummies that comes from CENTURIES before Spaniards arrived. They are the result to human sacrifices by the Incas in the mountains. The mummies are in perfect state of preservation, frozen through ages. Native Americans before Norses,Spaniards or Brits looked like this child that died one century before Spaniards arrived to Chile





            And this mummy was found in Argentina

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            • Pocahontas portrait No.2.

              [QUOTE=purple flowers]
              ok that is speculation and no proof... but maybe it is possible, but not probable.
              and even then the percentage of white would still be very low. 100 year 5 generations maybe ... with one white ancestor?
              what I will give you is it is obvious her fathers Y is not an asian dna line.. the package is not asian that does not mean it isn't native... it is just not asian ...
              so can I shoot you now ( because I can show you a bunch of imperialistic Indians long long time before one non native was every here. Inca and toltec and Mayan etc etc .
              QUOTE]

              I agree about the Aztecs and Mayas being very imperialistic, and they too were "standouts" in their region..
              Relatively,in the Algonkian region the culture was "live and let live" in keeping with reverence for Nature; young-warior conflicts were more "sporting", than attempts to subdue and exploit other tribes, as Powhatan did so extensively and purposely.
              Here is another portrait of Our Princess, which looks even more Espanola!

              http://www.williamtalbot.com/19thcen...portraits.html

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              • yes I have that picture of her too.. I figured it looked enough like the portait in england.. it should erase any rumor that it is not the same person.
                but I suspect her hair is like mine used to be .. most people say I have dark hair .. until I get some sun.. then it starts turning colors.. but I have pictures where my hair is long and almost black.. and you can tell in portrait in England that her hair has some wave and some other shade besides black, the tips are brownish or reddish .
                here is her at baptism in what seems to be her more blondish or reddish moments of her life or was younger life . which many people including natives start light and get darker even turn black haired by old age... you see lots of it in South America

                and a better quality partial copy


                http://www.biodiversityforum.com/sho...368#post324368

                IN my opinion
                maybe these ignored blond Inuits were as close as the Florida Spanish group and were here a whole lot longer than the Spanish .... and if the vikings got here or whatever genes it is that makes these Inuit blondish could have made any tribe fairer .... and most northern tribes say the vikings did get here and have clear stories of them. and even some getting to south America and they have blondish Indians. and lots of records of such... and down there too .
                so I suspect that these blondish genes were here before columbus and is as likely and or more likely than late Spanish blood to be the source of Pocahontas fairness.
                and mostly IF the Vikings got here..... and they were not even close in competition with the great sea faring people... like the Japanese.. Polynesians who both most likely are cousins of the easiest largest fleets of sea travelers call the Phoenicians right? who disappeared from the earth all at once...... the same ones who ruled the seas, who existence and culture was not about what land they were in but about the people......Phoenicians ruled the seas at least 1000 or more many more years before the vikings.. if the vikings got here then the phoenicians and Romans and Greeks who got their sea traveling abilities from Phoenicians.. sure could have got here too and thousands of years before the vikings.. that is assuming that the vikings are not one of these people I just mentioned ... but we don't understand how it can be that way now.

                Gosh...
                as far as north east people all living in harmony with mother earth before white men got here.....I don't believe it ..
                OH do I got stories
                that is a interesting concept and I am afraid way more of a romantic fairy tale than Vikings make it to America.
                Now can we talk about how fast women of these tribes could skin a man alive or what some some tribes women used to do to captured men.... or how many of the tribes were at least ceremonial cannibals.
                yes there were confederations....
                but they had to have gotten and held that prime land somehow.. and I really doubt it was through peace and love and harmony...
                Last edited by purple flowers; 16 April 2008, 01:45 PM.

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                • Originally posted by purple flowers
                  yes I have that picture of her too.. I figured it looked enough like the portait in england.. it should erase any rumor that it is not the same person.
                  ....
                  here is her at baptism in what seems to be her more blondish or reddish moments of her life or was younger life . which many people including natives start light and get darker even turn black haired by old age... you see lots of it in South America
                  ...
                  Dark brownish hair is common in Amerindians anad Japaneses as well. However, blond or dark blond hair is not common between pure Indigenous people. It is common in South America because we receive Europeans by the tons in the last five centuries.

                  Originally posted by purple flowers
                  maybe these ignored blond Inuits were as close as the Florida Spanish group and were here a whole lot longer than the Spanish .... and if the vikings got here or whatever genes it is that makes these Inuit blondish could have made any tribe fairer .... and most northern tribes say the vikings did get here and have clear stories of them. and even some getting to south America and they have blondish Indians. and lots of records of such... and down there too .
                  ...
                  Hardly. I bet all those mixed Euro-indigenous people that fascinates you are product of intermarriage after 1492. Spaniards intermarried with Amerindian women as a matter of routine.

                  Originally posted by purple flowers
                  so I suspect that these blondish genes were here before columbus and is as likely and or more likely than late Spanish blood to be the source of Pocahontas fairness.
                  ...
                  From the Norse? I don't think so. The Norse didn't intermarry with the Inuits in Greenland because they were already very racists. They would hardly had intermarry with Natives of labrador. Spaniards had a different attitude and you also find blonds among them.

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                  • Just thought I would post this here.

                    Quote:
                    Nearly all native South Americans and most native North Americans are descended from haplogroup Q3, marker M3, which arose 10,000 to 15,000 years ago. Interestingly, while this defining marker arose in the Americas, it is also found at low frequencies in the Russian Far East in populations that have had more recent contact with Native American populations, probably via maritime connections from Alaska.

                    Source: Facts & Genes from Family Tree DNA Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - Genetic Genealogy: Genographic Project Update

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                    • Originally posted by kawashkar
                      .... are product of intermarriage after 1492. Spaniards intermarried with Amerindian women as a matter of routine. ...
                      I read an earlier post that said Powatan lived in Florida then moved to Viriginia. If that's true, then what about the other east coast tribes? Maybe the Delaware (or New Jersey tribes) lived in Florida among the Spaniards for a while also? That could also explain my Spain (and Portugal) match, if it isn't a stand-in for British/Celtic. I live in Florida now and found out I'm 17% while living here.


                      Originally posted by kawashkar
                      From the Norse? I don't think so. The Norse didn't intermarry with the Inuits in Greenland because they were already very racists. They would hardly had intermarry with Natives of labrador. Spaniards had a different attitude and you also find blonds among them.
                      I agree with Purple Flowers and I also think that the Norse/Vikings did intermarry/had children with the indigenous American women, but at Vineland. Men will procreate with women, regardless of supposed racist attitudes. From the portraits/pictures I've seen, east coast natives were already much fairier, in general, than ones in the west.


                      edit: Found the post:
                      Originally posted by derinos
                      Pocahontas' genealogy.

                      The history of her father is that he migrated north from the then 110-year-old Spanish colony in Florida and that he may have been of Spanish & Seminole DNA blend. He was far more politically proactive than was customary in the Algonkian culture, hence the rare imperial style of his regime. Shades of the Conquistadors?
                      There had been four or five generations of interbreeding time in Florida.
                      All that may account for the several Spanish words found in the Virginian-Algonkian language branch spoken in the Powhatan Federation, as written down by Smith's recording clerk in 1610. And some clue as to why Pocahontas unlike her sisters, so readily adopted the colonists. Euro-American inter-breeding began at least a century before the Virginia Company and Plymouth Rock.
                      If that is true, then other tribes could have gone to Florida also.
                      Last edited by rainbow; 17 April 2008, 01:16 PM.

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                      • Ok so pocohantas was a great indian because her dad was spanish. what I can't figure out is if the spanish are trying to claim her or the indians trying not too... I guess the later!

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                        • you see I miss trust this for very good reasons..
                          oneof the most famous cherokee/indians ever is my 5x grandfathers and there are five or 6 different tales that go around trying to make him a part blood cherokee .
                          but you see I know the whole story, everything about him and his birth , everything everything !!!!!!!!!!!! and just exactly why they want to make him look like a sell out.. which nothing could be farther from the truth. so I know he wasn't a sell out and I suspect these stories of pocohantas are motivated by the same dang thing, money and power .
                          the things like some cherokee have gone so far as to try to prove " Corn Blossom" did not exsist.. books written and everything. they did this to invalidate everyones " cherokee" blood in KY IN and OH and WV , and VA. so that no tribes would be recognized by the state or Fed governments in those places and all casinos would be in cherokee Oklahomas control... and they try to do the same to all of the offspring of " treaty party" and of the " chickamauga" "texas cherokee" etc,
                          something that was not known till I got back on the scene is that "The Ridge " was "Dragging Canoe's nephew" so they have tried very very hard to write off a whole family starting with Attakullakulla who they claim as a half nuts part blood ... so they have been trying to undo all the groups claiming connections and blood lines to these people.
                          so I know for sure these other tales of them being part bloods is lies .. bad lies about Attakullkulla being part white.. when he wasn't even born a cherokee... HE WAS ADOPTED. and they do not have DAMN CLUE WHAT HIS BLOOD LINE WAS, they think they do . but they are clueless to who he was and who really became! that is family business.

                          SO how can I with any reason believe these stories that try and invalidates Pohatan and Pocohantas. I have sen who else they try to invalidate .... I am not going to believe it for good reasons.

                          http://www.cherokeediscovery.com/history.html
                          here is alot is stuff that has been ignored for political reasons .... just like that " scientist" did when he heard that there was blond inuits..... notice he did not ask why. he just claimed it could not be . did he really want to know why?.. or did he just wrote it off and ignored it.
                          Last edited by purple flowers; 18 April 2008, 10:12 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by purple flowers
                            Ok so pocohantas was a great indian because her dad was spanish. what I can't figure out is if the spanish are trying to claim her or the indians trying not too... I guess the later!
                            I don't think Spaniards ever wanted to claim Pocahontas for them.

                            If you knew the history of the Spanish Colonies of the Americas you would know that Spaniards made families with Amerindian wives, married in the curch. So, the attitude was different.

                            In any case, I preffer to think Pocahontas was pure Amerindian. Why not?

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                            • I'm sorry I erased some things and now it is a WRONG statement , I did not erase all of it like I intended. I do not see so good.I type with a giant magnifing glass in front of the screen. it makes it hard to see what I write. and this site doesn't have a very forgiving " EDIT" system.


                              in the above statement I said
                              " something that was not known till I got back on the scene is that "The Ridge " was "Dragging Canoe's" nephew"


                              This statement above, they all knew that sorry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!..
                              they didn't know who Dragging Canoes and Dutchy's little brother was . and who some of their sisters were and where their families ended up.
                              yes they ended up in many of those places they wish to erase cherokee from. none of it relative to pocohantas.. so I wish I would have erased it all. sorry.

                              Comment


                              • That's okay, I understood what you meant in the next posts. You're right it doesn't have a forgiving edit system. Any edit has to be done within 15 minutes. Can't delete anything after that either. I know because I edit a lot and miss the 15 min. deadline sometimes.

                                I read a little bit about how there are people with Native American ancestry and tribes that can't get recognized because they don't have the papers/genealogy. It would be nice if in the future DNA tests were allowed as proof of ancestry. I think people who are about 40% NA or more on the ancestrybydna 2.5 test should be counted/recognized even if they don't have the genealogy/papers to prove it. The population data needs to updated too. I think Native American ancestry is under reported.
                                from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_..._United_States
                                "Total population
                                American Indian and Alaska Native
                                One race: 2.5 million
                                In combination with one or more other races: 1.6 million"

                                In my situation my 17% NA may be Central Asian or Native American or a combination of both. I don't know either way at this point. I assumed I was 100% European, with maybe a small amount of Hun ancestry. If it wasn't for having a Slavic (Czechoslovakian) grandfather then I never would have taken the test. I took the test to see if I had maybe 3% East Asian from possible Hun or Mongolian ancestry. Unless those Huns were descended from Native Americans that crossed back over to Asia? Probably not.
                                Last edited by rainbow; 19 April 2008, 06:17 AM.

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