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American Indian admixture in White Americans

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  • just wonderin'

    I too am suspicious that there was ultra-early settlement(s) in South America. Although it seems firm that Polynesians reached South America (them chickens as evidence), that was only a few thousand years ago. But there has been (controversial) evidence (don't ask me for sources) for Brazil and Chile. An African origin would seem plausible, since ocean currents would allow a successful crossing.

    U5b2 & R1a1

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    • Originally posted by tomcat
      Do you have information about tribes whose origin legends support the morphological papers to which you posted links, confirming the hypothesis of cited morphologists that there was a paleo-Indian population that 'got here' (the Americas) long before the Siberians (who are the subject of DNA research)?

      And what do your legends say about the fate of those Australasians who got here long before the Siberians? Did they succumb to Siberian diseases or did the Siberians simply kill all the men and take their women?

      As to the grave-robbing ... Tut is way out-of-luck. ('Cept we could suppose he successfully made the transition).
      but itis very disrespectfull and that is their biggest gripe is the total lact of respect this industry has for anything , everything !
      what is australasians Y dna line? they are still here . you just do not see them. we do not understand what forms dna takes in ever changing populations. alot probably went into slavery too. but they were here too or sent or europe or africa.

      a few tribes talk about islands sinking, and island hopping to get here ... but they were coming to the northeast america from the west and south . .. others about coming from the rising sun when there was still cave men...( I suspect the cave men might be the Australasians, maybe)
      other claiming to be Pheoncians and actually even " Carthage" and that in a court of law actually ( but I can not find the court case).I was told it was a court case in 1800's .
      it is all there , but no one is listening..
      which stories you want first? what kind of proofs do they need? I will see what I can find.. most of this stuff I was told when I was small.. finding proof or many documents to get a rounded veiw of it, might take a bit of time.
      it seems any scientist worth anything should at least consider these things when they are making up stuff and trying to pass their ideas off as FACT on a people ... if they do not know their history.. because these things may not be 100% truth but they will not be 100% lies either. people passed down stuff as accurately as was possible and they can't be fooled by some kind freaky "Science" that is disconnected for their history.
      Last edited by purple flowers; 13 March 2008, 01:29 AM.

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      • Originally posted by purple flowers
        ...
        a few tribes talk about islands sinking, and island hopping to get here ... but they were coming to the northeast america from the west and south . .. others about coming from the rising sun when there was still cave men...( I suspect the cave men might be the Australasians, maybe)
        other claiming to be Pheoncians and actually even " Carthage" and that in a court of law actually ( but I can not find the court case).I was told it was a court case in 1800's ...
        A 'sinking island' could be an island or peninsula undergoing sea level rise.
        And while quite a few tribal histories contain tales of wandering, most assume they are wanderings within the American land masses for which there is other archaeological and genetic evidence. The Phoenecian ref. seems odd as such an identification is nowhere near as ancient as that proposed by any of the several Beringian hypotheses. And, again, the most wide-ranging collections of Native DNA have the vast majority of Natives falling within ABCDX haplogroups and that agrees with the majority of successful DNA extractions from skeletal remains.

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        • [QUOTE=tomcat]The Phoenecian ref. seems odd as such an identification is nowhere near as ancient as that proposed by any of the several Beringian hypotheses. And, again, the most wide-ranging collections of Native DNA haveQUOTE]

          "Phoenecian ref. seems odd as such an identification is nowhere near as ancient as that proposed by any of the several Beringian hypotheses."


          many don't give a dam about how "ancient"white folks think they are or were here..
          it is that you insist on their origins AND HISTORIES from places they they did not come from.. THAT IS USING THEM TO PROVE SCEINCES AGENDAS.. THIS IS NEVER FAIR.
          yes they MOST ARE LEARY AND think the ulterior motive of science is to prove they do not have a claim to this land.. but what is most insulting is that most of them know they did not come from china. do you see how this whole thing undermines everything they are and were . EVERYTHING TOLD TO THEM , THEIR HISTORIES THEIR STORIES THEIR CONECTION TO THE LAND ? SO IT WAS ONLY 2000 OR 4000 YEARS AND NOT 100000000000000000 so! WHAT A FEAT THEY ACCOMPLISHED GETTING HERE TO THIS LAND THEY LOVE. WHEN FEW ELSE COULD DO IT.. but you and I know that if they were here one hour before the next GUY and if said party buys or treaties for said lands that it is theirs and that money is owed and treaty has obligations that have to be met. or it is ALL OUT THEFT IN ANY COURT OF LAW . to have it just one hour longer than Columbus is all it took/takes AND SOME THAT IS THE CASE.... and Pheonicians were here a hell of a lot longer than Maddox and their dna is NOW being called " NATIVE AMERICAN"

          "the vast majority" that is a big fabricated lie.... TOLD OFTEN ENOUGH ..

          if they say it often enough people will eventually believe it. they have been cherry picking Chinese for a very long time, the rest ON ALL EAST SIDES OF NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA they put in slavery . they still ignore a lot and it goes through agendas and all sorts of filters and assumptions.
          like the study in Puerto Rico about Taino Indians is just chocked full of the worst "science " I have ever seen. from cherry picking to all out ignoring evidence!
          What is evident is that sceince does not want all the truth... they just want their truth. and no one is going to ever respect something like that.

          Comment


          • I think the Indians are closely related to the Mongolians. I also cannot buy the land bridge scenario.
            This route was impassible. I have flown over the arctic and the ice is not laying flat on the surface. The ice is jammed together and is sticking up in the air, I want to see someone try and crawl over that for thousands of miles.
            The Mongolians were not a seafaring people so they could of migrated into Korea or Japan to have access to boats. They could have had their settlements in these areas also and learned to build large boats to make the journey to North America. The trade winds were favorable to the sail boats.
            As far as non-Indians arriving in North America, they could of stopped to re-supply and moved on to their next exploration point. The Indians would of not welcomed them with open arms, unless these peoples looked like them, or they thought they could learn from them. Superstitions or whatever also played the role as to welcome them or not.
            I cannot wait to see what National Geographic has to say about this when their study is finally finished.
            d

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            • The reason the term 'land bridge' is used is because there was a bridge of land, dry land, grassland, connecting northeast Siberia to Alaska that existed from about 30KYA to about 10KYA consequent to a drop in sea level due to the sequestration of Earth's water in glaciers (the last Ice Age).

              While folks may speculate about other means or times of passage to the Americas, the land bridge is the only hypothesis supported by climatalogical, geologic, archaeological and genetic evidence. The current thinking on the matter is that Siberian populations moved into Beringia (the land bridge) as soon as it was established and remained there until about 15KYA when a coastal and/or inter-glacial passage opened to allow them to enter the North American land mass, proper, from whence they went on to rapidly expand and migrate all the way to the very tip of South America.

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              • Tom Cat,
                I fully under the land bridge arguments.
                This is my thinking and no one else
                Last edited by darroll; 14 March 2008, 03:14 PM.

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                • Tom Cat,
                  I fully under the land bridge arguments.
                  This is my thinking and no one else

                  Tom Cat,
                  I fully under the land bridge arguments.
                  This is my thinking and no one else
                  Last edited by darroll; 14 March 2008, 03:23 PM.

                  Comment


                  • I have been trying to do a cut/paste to no avail.
                    I use Vista with Word 2007. I mentioned this before of this web site..

                    Now I will bone in my reply to Tom Cat,

                    Tom Cat,
                    I fully understand the land bridge arguments.
                    This is my thinking and no-one elses.
                    Going north in an ice age would be a tragic mistake.
                    The Mongolians could have had settlements in Anadyr, Russia earlier. Their only way to head for warmer climates would be thru the Bering Strait area.
                    I also know that during an ice age the water recedes and they could of walked over to Nome. The trip south would have been a real problem. This is some of the worst conditions for anyone walking in the world.
                    This is why I still stick by my boat theory. thanks, dc

                    I hope this Post will work..... this time.......

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by purple flowers
                      three outside of the box , or " the other side".
                      looks like the war is on.. Bering will win because it has built it's own box.. <LOL>


                      http://www.scielo.br/pdf/gmb/v22n4/0929.pdf

                      http://www.interciencia.org/v24_04/neves.pdf

                      http://npg.nature.com/nature/journal...ture01816.html

                      These are arguments for the existence of a non-Mongoloid paleo-Indian population (later supplanted by a Mongoloid Indian population) but none of these authors offer dates older than the date window offered by the Bering land bridge and none propose any migratory means or path other than by foot out of Beringia.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by darroll
                        ... Going north in an ice age would be a tragic mistake.
                        The Mongolians could have had settlements in Anadyr, Russia earlier. Their only way to head for warmer climates would be thru the Bering Strait area.
                        I also know that during an ice age the water recedes and they could of walked over to Nome. The trip south would have been a real problem. This is some of the worst conditions for anyone walking in the world.
                        .......
                        1) Ample archaeological evidence from Europe and the Americas that Ice Age hunters were effective on the outwash plains below glacial fronts. Woolly mammoth were not tropical animals. We can assume that the preeminent concern of Ice Age hunters was not to get a tan but to hunt food.

                        2) Contrary your earlier, Beringia was not a jam of ice floes but a grassland, with game.

                        3) And as per my earlier, there was an ice-free corridor between the Laurentian and Cordilleran ice sheet about 15KYA and quite possibly an ice free corridor along the American west coast and/or ice-free mountain ranges earlier than 15KYA, certainly later. Hence the 'trip south' was possible.

                        Consider the simplicity of a hunter's life. You just go where the game is. If the environment will support game it will support you because you are going to kill and eat that game. And while a plant can poison you, there are (to the best of my knowledge) no poisonous mammals ... even if they eat the very same plants that would make you sick.

                        Fishing is good too. And you are free to imagine boats without contradiction by the archaeological record (as no evidence of paleo-Indian boats has yet been uncovered).

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                        • Originally posted by tomcat
                          1)
                          2) Contrary your earlier, Beringia was not a jam of ice floes but a grassland, with game.
                          Tom Cat,
                          Not during an ice age. The area gets real dry and they have terrible sand/dust/wind storms. The mammoth's also tried to migrate further south.
                          Will have to wait and see on this one. This is the reason we are having our DNA tested. Happy Friday, dc

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by darroll
                            Tom Cat,
                            Not during an ice age. The area gets real dry and they have terrible sand/dust/wind storms. The mammoth's also tried to migrate further south.
                            Will have to wait and see on this one. This is the reason we are having our DNA tested. Happy Friday, dc
                            You, evidently, have not read anything about the ecological conditions in Beringia or the archaeological evidence on human presence therein. Happy, happy, happy, scary, scary, scary. (Vote Republican?).

                            Comment


                            • Yes, You are right, I do not deal well with mythology.
                              I deal with fact. Thank You, d

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tomcat
                                These are arguments for the existence of a non-Mongoloid paleo-Indian population (later supplanted by a Mongoloid Indian population) but none of these authors offer dates older than the date window offered by the Bering land bridge and none propose any migratory means or path other than by foot out of Beringia.
                                you got it.. they only want their truth.. their way. no matter what is found .. it is called cognitive dissonance...
                                there is more ancient or historical records for giants in this land than tiny indios of today but we hear nothing of it. why proof of giant kind of messes up their land bridge ideas... and really farts with their dna deal they got going..
                                I heard nothing of it till just recently. one of those studies I put up talked about the red headed giants...
                                now that should have blown the hell out of the stereo types... but it won't ... they will just continue to tell them they are white or africans..... but what anyone with a brain will known for sure is that those red headed giants were not east asians.. and they diffenately not chinese.

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