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American Indian admixture in White Americans

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  • the 1710's. her stories and history is why I knew to look there first.. to understand NA slavery first before I tried to figure out what my dna was on that side of the world.

    I really thought though that we ( my direct line ) were stereotypically asian enough to have been one of the A- D 's, I mean we have inca bones... but I always knew as tribes they/many never came from the land bridge, we did not come from that side.
    until something or even lots of things besides " land bridge" gets put on the table no one is going to take it seriously.... they can'rt because their dna will not match the land bridge people.. ther was an giant iceberg in the middle of this country and people developed different on each side of it.. and they only have some south american later coming tribes in common. so till something else gets put on the table.


    I think I need to say the indian "slave" grandmothers are indirects on my fathers side. so it is not my mom's side u5b2....

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    • Originally posted by purple flowers
      I also have the Asian ridge it is a heavy bone deposit that runs from ear to ear at the base of the scull which really makes for a ugly head shape.
      I never heard of this before. Tried to find pictures on google.
      I wonder if I have this. My skull is thicker behind my ears and there is a ridge. Above the ridge it's very thin/hollow/soft. But I've had several head injuries (never very serious. not hospitalized) when I was an infant and a kid so it may be from that.

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      • Originally posted by rainbow
        I never heard of this before. Tried to find pictures on google.
        I wonder if I have this. My skull is thicker behind my ears and there is a ridge. Above the ridge it's very thin/hollow/soft. But I've had several head injuries (never very serious. not hospitalized) when I was an infant and a kid so it may be from that.
        in that link I sent where AttaKullaKulla says " we came from the rising of the sun " it shows a round skull verses what is known as a Euro skull shape ( and why the whole kenniwick man has them all up in arms, about the fact that some of the early people here had long skulls, instead of round. )
        mine is the round one . so it starts there, I have to assume.
        and yes at base of the skull is a thick bony ridge. like someone put a thin rope tied from ear to ear. and covered it with putty and then stuck ii to my head. feels about 3/4in tall and sticks out or it feels 1/8 inch thick. yes it does dip in quite a bit before it starts up to what is probably like most peoples regular skulls. mine goes all the way across the same thickness from ear to ear.

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        • Originally posted by purple flowers
          in that link I sent where AttaKullaKulla says " we came from the rising of the sun " it shows a round skull verses what is known as a Euro skull shape ( and why the whole kenniwick man has them all up in arms, about the fact that some of the early people here had long skulls, instead of round. )
          mine is the round one . so it starts there, I have to assume.
          and yes at base of the skull is a thick bony ridge. like someone put a thin rope tied from ear to ear. and covered it with putty and then stuck ii to my head. feels about 3/4in tall and sticks out or it feels 1/8 inch thick. yes it does dip in quite a bit before it starts up to what is probably like most peoples regular skulls. mine goes all the way across the same thickness from ear to ear.
          I've been having trouble logging in. Logged in okay now.

          Mine is an indentation that starts behind both ears, near the top of my ears, not the base of my skull, and goes all the way across, as if a tight rope made the dent. My skull is thicker above and below that hollow 'valley' line, on the left and right side.

          I've seen people of all races with round heads and long heads. I don't believe that a long skull means that the person was a European.
          Last edited by rainbow; 10 January 2008, 12:52 AM.

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          • Originally posted by rainbow
            I've seen people of all races with round heads and long heads. I don't believe that a long skull means that the person was a European.
            yes but we need to tell this to the anthro's and then maybe movie makers who seem to like to create stereo types and worse tell people who they are and where they come from.. gosh now can I tell them where they can go? ( oops did I say that out loud ).. what just because maybe 51% were perceived as something . that did not make what they thought they were seeing correct... just because we think we see something .... that does not make the other 49% any less whatever it really was.
            now they are only seeing what they want to see and thus created their own reality. even the dam Indian are now saying " well that tribe of wannabee;s is only 40% native DNA..... like they know what native DNA is . just because two or three tribes have a % of it does not mean all of them were supposed to be that. .
            have you read how they do some of those studies in south America ".. they go looking for " native American" by finding Asian traits , and those traits come from males .. that is still very very wrong... anti scientific... for the most part you can not see female lines at all.... only if you know what you are looking at and you know long histories of a females families lines . the fathers and their mothers true mtdna carries almost all of the "looks" and coloring and female children . and the males true y carried about 70 to 75 % of the male children's coloring and looks. about 25- 30 % of the males of a stereotypical Asian/native American female line might look like her true genetic side. but very few of the females will show their true genetic look. you can only find that by looking at lots of males and females in the same mtdna line... what few traits they all share in common is their true traits.
            so yes I would like to tell some of these guys where to get off the bus ... they have dismissed 2X as many facts for a sun rise crossing then they have ever had for a Bering crossing.
            go check out the male Y Q follow the trade route? it is kinda cool

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=rainbow]I've been having trouble logging in. Logged in okay now.

              Mine is an indentation that starts behind both ears, near the top of my ears, not the base of my skull, and goes all the way across, as if a tight rope made the dent. My skull is thicker above and below that hollow 'valley' line, on the left and right side.

              yes I think that is it ! and the indent is at the ears.

              so lets just wait on your H . you need to see if it is in south America or especially slave populations in the Caribbean, that is where so many west coast natives went to. compare those with African dna and inother slaving areas or native transported areas . that if they were potentially from here or not... or if it is in any other tribes . that is what you need to find out for yourself... I doubt you get much help from science for while.. they are still trying to prove Bering Strait , like if there were one trip or ten..
              Last edited by purple flowers; 10 January 2008, 03:22 PM.

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              • American Indian admixture may be Central Asian. need about 25% to get a match

                I emailed DNATribes about my not getting matches to Native American populations when AncestryByDna says I'm 17%. I also mentioned that several people who say they have some Amerind ancestry are also not getting matches. I asked what percentage does a person need to have to get a match. Is it 50%?
                I'll quote the email response:

                Thank you for contacting us regarding your results. As you mention, smaller portions of Native American ancestors cannot always be identified with clarity, and people of predominantly non-Amerindian ancestry typically obtain low scores for these populations and regions. This reflects the greater degree of isolation of Amerindian populations as compared to other parts of the world.

                For people with some Native American ancestors, results will vary from person to person. Generally, 25% of more of Native American ancestors is sufficient to inherit identifiable connections to Native American populations and genetic regions. However, some individuals with smaller portions of ancestry can obtain substantial Native American matches when informative genetic material has been inherited.
                I wish I had known this in 2006 before taking the test. I thought the test would pick up any amount of Native American.


                I also emailed DNATribes asking if my world region matches to Asia Minor & North India are because of Native American/Central Asian markers. AncestryByDna/DNAPrint had told me in an email that their Native American coincides with Central Asian.
                I asked DNATribes if it could be Hun or Mongolian ancestry, because I'm 1/4 Slavic (Czech).

                response from another email to DNATribes:
                Thank you for following up regarding your question. Your results are most consistent with fully European ancestry. However, up to 1/8 Native American ancestors is not excluded.

                Although we do not have data for Hunnish populations present in Europe in historical times, match scores for the Mongolian and Asia Minor regions provide a comparison to living Turkic and Mongolian populations. Your DNA Print test's estimated percentage of Native American admixture could reflect ancestry typical of Asia Minor and North India. The term "Central Asia" is broad and can be used to describe the Asia Minor and adjacent to the North India regions as specifically defined for our analysis.

                Last response from last email to DNATribes when I asked for an opinion/advice about my Native American/Central Asian:
                Thank you for following up regarding your reports. Substantial Native American admixture is relatively uncommon within North American Caucasian populations, but all European populations preserve genetic links to the Near East to some degree. Unless there is family history documenting a Native American ancestor, your own results are more consistent with Near Eastern typical ancestry, which is not unusual for people of European descent.
                Last edited by rainbow; 10 January 2008, 04:59 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by purple flowers

                  so lets just wait on your H . you need to see if it is in south America or especially slave populations in the Caribbean, that is where so many west coast natives went to. compare those with African dna and inother slaving areas or native transported areas . that if they were potentially from here or not... or if it is in any other tribes . that is what you need to find out for yourself... I doubt you get much help from science for while.. they are still trying to prove Bering Strait , like if there were one trip or ten..
                  I live in Florida, but I'm not from here originally. I was born in New York and I moved to Florida years ago.

                  My H1 comes from an ancestor that lived in Virginia & North Carolina 200 years ago.
                  My ancestors lived in New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, & South Carolina.
                  My 17% Native American comes from my father (my mom had zero on her test). His side is New York & New Jersey.
                  AncestryByDna, in email exchanges, told me their Native American coincides with Central Asian. I wish that info was on AncestryByDna's website, plain to see for everyone, instead of me having to complain and email to find out privately. Everyone needs to know that their Native American is not 100% exclusively Native American.
                  If I'm part Native American, then it is completely unknown ancestry and undocumented, and only the ancestryByDna test says that's what I am.
                  My fathers mothers paternal line has been here for 358 years, arriving in New Amsterdam (New York) in 1650, and bought land in New Jersey in 1721. And they stayed in New Jersey since then. No venture into the midwest or western frontier. Just plain old New Jersey. I know almost nothing of the families of most of the wives that I descend from.

                  Comment


                  • I'm giving up all this 17% stuff for a while. I'll probably still visit the forum.
                    I'm still waiting for my paternal grandmothers birth certificate.

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                    • Originally posted by rainbow
                      I live in Florida, but I'm not from here originally. I was born in New York and I moved to Florida years ago.

                      My H1 comes from an ancestor that lived in Virginia & North Carolina 200 years ago.
                      My ancestors lived in New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina, & South Carolina.
                      My 17% Native American comes from my father (my mom had zero on her test). His side is New York & New Jersey.
                      AncestryByDna, in email exchanges, told me their Native American coincides with Central Asian. I wish that info was on AncestryByDna's website, plain to see for everyone, instead of me having to complain and email to find out privately. Everyone needs to know that their Native American is not 100% exclusively Native American.
                      If I'm part Native American, then it is completely unknown ancestry and undocumented, and only the ancestryByDna test says that's what I am.
                      My fathers mothers paternal line has been here for 358 years, arriving in New Amsterdam (New York) in 1650, and bought land in New Jersey in 1721. And they stayed in New Jersey since then. No venture into the midwest or western frontier. Just plain old New Jersey. I know almost nothing of the families of most of the wives that I descend from.
                      well have you ever heard of Charles Bronson... he looks VERY native American . very much so as far as the stereotypical look.. but he is from lithuania from a tribe called the Tatars. of coarse he may have also been a slave from Here and his DNA line was sent there, still no one will ever know for sure. ... but his family came here from Lithuania the Tatars. I have no issues with being from anyplace.. but I have family history that says we are native American and everyplace my DNA is it could have got there from here. and nothing there matches it.
                      since most daughters get their looks from their dads true Y or his moms MTDNA lines that is where I would be looking for some Asian type DNA lines something like the Tatars.. now if you mom has Asian ridge and other things which might be considered "native American" I would look that way too... Mr Holdten came back no native all euro right ? .... so that stuff does not mean anything. it still so experimental and as long as there is just the land bridge theory it isn't going to change. I would also look into the Moravians..
                      well my family of the cherokee loved the Moravians to death and maybe there was a reason they loved them and they loved natives and identified so much with them. maybe there some kind of old world connection we do not understand now.
                      Last edited by purple flowers; 10 January 2008, 10:44 PM.

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                      • Moravians vs. "Indians"

                        See the new book "Our Savage Neighbors" by Peter Silver, for an insight into the Moravian vs. Indian connection. Like the Quakers, they assisted the disintegrating Native American peoples in Colonial America. And they were hated by the rest of the "Whites" for it.

                        U5b2 & R1a1

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PDHOTLEN
                          See the new book "Our Savage Neighbors" by Peter Silver, for an insight into the Moravian vs. Indian connection. Like the Quakers, they assisted the disintegrating Native American peoples in Colonial America. And they were hated by the rest of the "Whites" for it.

                          U5b2 & R1a1
                          How and when did the people get called "savage" when they were originally called "Salvage". Earlier in this thread I saw that Pocahantas was referred to as a Salvage, not savage.

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                          • posted this earlier. a quote from an email resonse from DNATribes:
                            Thank you for following up regarding your reports. Substantial Native American admixture is relatively uncommon within North American Caucasian populations, but all European populations preserve genetic links to the Near East to some degree. Unless there is family history documenting a Native American ancestor, your own results are more consistent with Near Eastern typical ancestry, which is not unusual for people of European descent.
                            Well, I don't believe this explanation from DNATribes applies in my case. I couldn't possibly have that much Near Eastern. For a Greek or Turkish person, yes, but not for me.

                            I know that if a family was half Native American and half white they would be considered as white if they were assimilated into white society and living as white. I feel that there were a lot of intermarriages in colonial days producing half white and half native children, then they grew up and married other half/half people. It could just be that there are many generations like that, but living as white. Probably for their own protection. And eventually no one was told their even was American Indian ancestry. So maybe my fathers mother is about half native, but from many generations since 1650 and not from one full parent.
                            It's very likely that the Dutch, English, German, French, & Scottish on my grandmothers side is actually Dutch+unknown Indian tribe, English+another unknown Indian tribe, German+unknown Indian tribe, French+unknown Indian tribe, and Scottish+another unknown Indian tribe.
                            Sort of like the Metis, but without knowing.
                            Last edited by rainbow; 12 January 2008, 08:16 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rainbow
                              posted this earlier. a quote from an email resonse from DNATribes:
                              It's very likely that the Dutch, English, German, French, & Scottish on my grandmothers side is actually Dutch+unknown Indian tribe, English+another unknown Indian tribe, German+unknown Indian tribe, French+unknown Indian tribe, and Scottish+another unknown Indian tribe.
                              Sort of like the Metis, but without knowing.
                              and do check into the Moravians because they could have done just what you say , lots of my family at the time of the trail of tears went to the Moravians for help and then came back after going to indian territory .. it was ugly there after the trial of tears.. with lots of internal tribal wars for power .. so most went back east . to where ever they could find a place safe.. so lots of indians and relations are documented around the Moravians after the trail of tears also. so do check them out for lots of reasons.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by purple flowers
                                and do check into the Moravians because they could have done just what you say , lots of my family at the time of the trail of tears went to the Moravians for help and then came back after going to indian territory .. it was ugly there after the trial of tears.. with lots of internal tribal wars for power .. so most went back east . to where ever they could find a place safe.. so lots of indians and relations are documented around the Moravians after the trail of tears also. so do check them out for lots of reasons.
                                I looked for that. I found one that mentioned Jersey Indians visiting the Indians that stayed in the Moravian barracks in Pennsylvania.

                                http://bdhp.moravian.edu/community_r...iaryintro.html

                                http://members.tripod.com/~PlainfieldFriends/dudley.htm

                                http://books.google.com/books?id=0Mn...Y9FzrU#PPA3,M1


                                My mom has zero NA. My father is from Hunterdon County, New Jersey.
                                To me it looks like there is a lot of unknown Native American ancestry in white people from Hunterdon County, New Jersey colonial families.

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