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  • Indian Slave Trade DOCUMENTED

    Originally posted by derinos
    Profitable slave traffic in Amerindians? Not recorded as such, although there were numerous well-known "curiosity" travellers and kidnappings , the most notable being Pocahontas; and even just *before* the Plymouth Colony, Squanto.
    The Indian Slave Trade is documented. A few links but there are many more on the subject.

    http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/hist...ns_slavery.htm

    http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/b...=9780300101935

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_slavery

    Comment


    • NC Law Suit regarding Indian Slave

      Originally posted by derinos
      Profitable slave traffic in Amerindians? Not recorded as such
      This is a Law Suit taken from the NC State Archives ( one of many ) on Indian Slaves

      North Carolina State Archives
      Colonial Court Records 1675-1775
      Indians 1697-1758
      Book By William Byrd III- Villiany Often Goes Unpunished
      Indian Records From The North Carolina General Assembly Sessions 1675-1789

      Broughton Vs Glover

      North Carolina Ss March General Court 1736

      Andrew Broughton Esqr complains of John Glover of Bertie prect. planter in custody of ye marshall & for that to witt Whereas the said Andrew on or about ye tenth day of june in ye year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and thirty five in the province of South Carolina was possessed of an INDIAN MAN SLAVE called Cyrus age about thirty Seven years by trade a Carpenter of the price of One hundred pounds proclaiming mony being the SLAVE and property of the said Andrew and being so possessed he the said Andrew afterwards that is to say on the aforesaid tenth day of June in the year aforsd and in the province of South Carolina aforesaid out of his hands and possession the aforesaid INDIAN SLAVE called Cyrus did cassually loose which said INDIAN SLAVE so lost afterwards that is to say on or about the tenth day of September in the year of the aforesaid in the Prect. of Bertie in the aforesaid province of North Carolina into the hands and possession of the aforesaid John Glover by finding same and notwithstanding he the said John well knew the said INDIAN SLAVE CYRUS to be the property and SLAVE of said Andrew and that of right he then belongs to him yet he the said John continuing and intending him the Sd Andrew of the said INDIAN SLAVE to [Torn] and the Said INDIAN SLAVE to him ye said. Andrew hath not as yet delivered altho often since in the precinct of Bertie aforesaid by him the sd. Andrew he the said John was so to do required But he ye said John the said INDIAN SLAVE afterwards to witt on or about the twentieth day of September in the year and prect. aforesaid for his own proper use and J [Torn]ns & did convert and dispose of to the said Andrews damage of five hundred pounds currt. mony of the aforesaid province of North Carolina and thereupon he Brings this Suit &c
      J Montgomery Att:

      Comment


      • And more documentation

        From The Nova Scotia Hisotrical Society, Volume X, 1896-98 pgs 72-73


        "Not many years after Dutch traders had introduced African slaves into Virginia, the fortunes of war threw numbers of Inidan captives into the hands of the English settlers in America... At the close of the fierce Perquod war, when about seven hundred Indians had been slain or captured, the captives were divided between the colonists of Connecticut and Masachusetts. By the authorities of the latter province the male children were sent to the Bermudas; the women and girls being distributed as slaves among the settlements at home: as somewhat similar course was no doubt adopted by the managers of the first-named province. Many other Indian captives were thrown into the hands of the New England settlers by the King Philip war. These could be held as slaves at home, but could not at athe time be lawfully taken out of the country. Another terrible war----between the South Carolinians and Tuscaroras----ending in the defeat of the latter, left a large number of Indian prisoneers on possession of the Carolinians, who shipped them as slaves to other coloniers. There the commission of cruel outrages by several of them led the General Courts, in the northern colonies in particular, to prohibit, under severe penalties, the further introcuction of Inidans as slaves. In the meantime, many Guinea slaves, regarded as of greater value than the Indians, who had proved poor and dangerous house servants, had been brought to the colonies; and both at the north and south the two races had intermarried, the Indians at length becoming absorbed into the much greater number of blacks, a limited amalgamation also taking place between the latter and the whites."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kawashkar
          Just a comment. I figured out this after reading Jack Forbes'. There is another fact that complicates matters a little bit. That fact is that hundred of thousands of Amerindians, perhaps millions, were shipped as slaves to Europe in the early phases of the colonization of the Americas. They ended mainly in Spain, Portugal and France but also in England and the Netherlands, among other countries.

          No wonder Amerindian DNA was found in England. I bet there are quite a lot of people who is descendent of indigenous people in Europe, and not just descend from groups close to them, like mongols and turks.

          Kawashkar
          I certainly agree that american indians were used and sold as slaves in the americas, especially for sugar and tobacco cultivation, but have seen no evidence in any of the interesting links above of any large scale trade in american indians to europe. Being Dutch I can tell you that to the best of my knowledge no significant number of american indians were taken as slaves to The Netherlands. My wife's family is Spanish and are similarly unaware of any large scale use of american indians as slaves in Spain. How does Forbes justify these claims?

          John

          Comment


          • Another Point of View

            One of my ancestors around that time of 1850 said that they were taken from the east coast with the cattle. She ended up returning to Virginia on her own. However, over the last 400 years with the colonist, the biggest problem has been with the church and the families using the law and police to prevent marriages. Some people did not and some people did. People often married for money and military alliances and not for love. So, they made laws to protect their money and conquest. It is difficult to keep your land when they move you like cattle. I think everyone likes a getting married for love story. It would be nice to gather all of the point-of-views in America from the last 400 years. I guess that is what historians are for . . .

            Originally posted by derinos
            . . .
            The last straw (in USA) was the "Solution to the Indian Problem" conducted by a combination of legislation, and a surplus of the military, at the end of the Civil War, by which whole communities were knowingly resettled in land which could not keep them alive.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Johnserrat
              I certainly agree that american indians were used and sold as slaves in the americas, especially for sugar and tobacco cultivation, but have seen no evidence in any of the interesting links above of any large scale trade in american indians to europe. Being Dutch I can tell you that to the best of my knowledge no significant number of american indians were taken as slaves to The Netherlands. My wife's family is Spanish and are similarly unaware of any large scale use of american indians as slaves in Spain. How does Forbes justify these claims?

              John

              1692 Shawnee raid to capture slaves for trade with the English destroyed a major Cherokee village while its warriors were absent on a winter hunt. This treachery destroyed any trust or friendship that had existed between the Cherokee and Shawnee.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by FredSpringer
                1692 Shawnee raid to capture slaves for trade with the English destroyed a major Cherokee village while its warriors were absent on a winter hunt. This treachery destroyed any trust or friendship that had existed between the Cherokee and Shawnee.
                While your comment is undoubtedly true, it is not responsive to the issue of whether there is any evidence for large-scale use of american indian slaves in Europe.

                John

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Johnserrat
                  Where is the evidence of hundreds of thousands of "Amerindians" being shipped as slaves to Europe? I have seen records showing some Native Americans being taken to Europe but not in the numbers you suggest.

                  John
                  The slave trade still exists today.
                  Look at the numbers of people that just disappear.
                  Whose behind it?. I don’t have a clue. d

                  Comment


                  • Amerindians did get enslaved .

                    Thanks to several of you for enlightening me on the documention of instances of Amerindian enslavement. That carpenter was an immensely valuable example at one hundred pounds currency value, and five hundred damages; enough to buy a good farm.


                    However, the scale of such slavery appears insufficient as a major factor in the massive population decline of the Amerindians. I note that in one account, exporting an enslaved Indian was cited as being illegal.

                    Comment


                    • Pencil Genocide

                      Originally posted by derinos

                      However, the scale of such slavery appears insufficient as a major factor in the massive population decline of the Amerindians. .
                      Another big major factor is what we call "Pencil Genocide" I know many people who's ancestors proven "Indian" ( by paper or DNA ) but were listed as "White" on the census or on a birth cirtificate for saftey purposes. I have found slave census where the slaves are listed as "WHITE ' One of my Indian ancestors was listed as " WHITE MEXICAN " . They say the Taino tribe in Cuba was extinct. DNA has proved this to be wrong. We all know history can be filled with exaggerations. I think there were a lot more Indians here than recorded or accounted for. Many assimilated into white society and survived.
                      I think one day DNA testing will prove this.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Yaffa
                        Another big major factor is what we call "Pencil Genocide" I know many people who's ancestors proven "Indian" ( by paper or DNA ) but were listed as "White" on the census or on a birth cirtificate for saftey purposes. I have found slave census where the slaves are listed as "WHITE ' One of my Indian ancestors was listed as " WHITE MEXICAN " . They say the Taino tribe in Cuba was extinct. DNA has proved this to be wrong. We all know history can be filled with exaggerations. I think there were a lot more Indians here than recorded or accounted for. Many assimilated into white society and survived.
                        I think one day DNA testing will prove this.
                        I never heard of the Taino being extinct. Most Puerto Ricans are part Taino.
                        Someone told me that someone told her (third hand) that about 40,000 Puerto Rican families were sent to the Phillipines to work for an American fruit company after the Spanish American War.

                        I'm waiting for a copy of my paternal grandmother's birth record. Even if one of her parents was Indian I doubt it'll say that on the record. I don't have much faith in the accurracy of documents, but I am getting it to see what it has and to research further back.

                        I do think that there were way more Indians intermarrying and assimilating with white society (in New Jersey) than anyone has ever thought there was. New Jersey doesn't have photos on the drivers licenses.

                        I had read that Columbus had shipped thousands of Indians to Europe. Where did they all go? I do wonder if some were sent to work in Greece, Italy, and Turkey, where they would blend in. That would explain why some Europeans are getting high NA results on their tests, and not just because of ancient Central Asian markers.
                        Last edited by rainbow; 16 November 2007, 08:50 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Tiano

                          Originally posted by rainbow
                          I never heard of the Taino being extinct. Most Puerto Ricans are part Taino.
                          Someone told me that someone told her (third hand) that about 40,000 Puerto Rican families were sent to the Phillipines to work for an American fruit company after the Spanish American War.

                          I'm waiting for a copy of my paternal grandmother's birth record. Even if one of her parents was Indian I doubt it'll say that on the record. I don't have much faith in the accurracy of documents, but I am getting it to see what it has and to research further back.

                          I do think that there were way more Indians intermarrying and assimilating with white society (in New Jersey) than anyone has ever thought there was. New Jersey doesn't have photos on the drivers licenses.

                          I had read that Columbus had shipped thousands of Indians to Europe. Where did they all go? I do wonder if some were sent to work in Greece, Italy, and Turkey, where they would blend in. That would explain why some Europeans are getting high NA results on their tests, and not just because of ancient Central Asian markers.
                          http://www.hartford-hwp.com/Taino/docs/docs.html
                          Here is a good link all about the Tiano, Christopher Columbus, etc.

                          Ther Europeans in their histoy say the Tiano were extinct. I do wonder how many are actually Are Tiano. Not that I believe they were extinct but, there were many tribes from here that were taken to the Islands as slaves. People in the Islands could also be decendants from some of the tribes here.

                          NJ and assimilating into white society. I have not researched NJ. I do know a few people who's ancestors were in the Carlisle School and never went back to their tribe. They assimilated into white society but I don't know the statistics of all the children placed there as to what they did. If they stayed up north or went back to their tribes.The southern states were a different story.

                          Comment


                          • Tried to contact

                            Originally posted by rainbow
                            I'm waiting for a copy of my paternal grandmother's birth record. Even if one of her parents was Indian I doubt it'll say that on the record. I don't have much faith in the accurracy of documents, but I am getting it to see what it has and to research further back.
                            .
                            Tried to resopnd but your mailbox was full! Thats what my point was about BC and census assimilating into white society.Many people claimed White on a BC or on a census. Was it the Dr's that told the mother's to put White on a BC or was it the mother's choice? When the census enumorator came to the door, did the person say they were Indian but the enumorator put down white or was it the persons choice to state they were white? Back then when the census enumorators would go door to door , if you weren't home, they would ask your neighbor for all your family info. The enumorators got paid by each houshold they wrote down. Today, we now get to mail our own census in. The only time the enumorators go door to door is if you don't mail back your census.
                            They were trying to destroy the Indian and their culture. They were not permitted to practice their Indian Culture/Religion until 1978.
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...us_Freedom_Act

                            I was researching MS. I came across a family that was listed twice on the census. It seemed that they had moved from one part of town to the other. Same County. All info was the same with one acception, the census enumorator crossed off one of the children to make it look like a differnt family. The child did not die so there was no reason to cross her off. That census enumorator got paid for listing the same family twice and it was the same enumorator on both census.
                            Last edited by Yaffa; 17 November 2007, 06:41 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by derinos
                              ....

                              But, all over, during Eurocolonization epidemic disease appears to have been the dominant genocidal engine, obviously the smallpox, but also many maladies, not fatal to immune Europeans , like pertussis, measles, chickenpox, but which were very potent in a population without previous ly acquired immunity.. To quote,

                              "The scope of the epidemics over the years was enormous, killing millions of people—in excess of 90% of the population in the hardest hit areas—and creating "the greatest human catastrophe in history, probably exceeding even the disaster of the Black Death that killed up to one-third of the people in Europe between 1347 and 1351." [Wikipedia]
                              .
                              The "90%" figure is just an estimation. Part of the "number crunching" metodology of many authors. There are political reasons to increase the estimation of Amerindians at contact time to match them with the "90% decline" figure. The fact is, although there was a major decline, perhaps as dramatic like the "Black Death" impact in Europe, the long term impact of that was minor in comparison with other factors. I have the figures with care and I got convinced that populations between 15 to 25 millions are the largest realistic numbers for the Americas as a whole at contact times. If so, a decline of 30% is reasonable.

                              Originally posted by derinos
                              ....
                              The last straw (in USA) was the "Solution to the Indian Problem" conducted by a combination of legislation, and a surplus of the military, at the end of the Civil War, by which whole communities were knowingly resettled in land which could not keep them alive.
                              The point is, how many Amerindian people assimilated between 1660s up to 1860s? Two centuries is a long period, and the fact that Cherokees where publishing papers in theirs language, right inside the "white" society, in the 1800s, shows that society was more diverse than though.

                              In other terms, I bet at those times most of the "Indians" were already "White" by life-style.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Johnserrat
                                I certainly agree that american indians were used and sold as slaves in the americas, especially for sugar and tobacco cultivation, but have seen no evidence in any of the interesting links above of any large scale trade in american indians to europe. Being Dutch I can tell you that to the best of my knowledge no significant number of american indians were taken as slaves to The Netherlands. My wife's family is Spanish and are similarly unaware of any large scale use of american indians as slaves in Spain. How does Forbes justify these claims?

                                John
                                You have to read the book of Forbes. He point out to the introduction of Amerindians in Spain and Portugal, and the existence of small Amerindian workers communities in there during the 16th and 17th century, particularly in places like Seville. There is also documents of many mixed people moving back to Europe, like Garcilaso de la Vega and Francisca Pizarro, both Inca+Spanish. The later left many descendents in Spain.

                                How many ended in Spain? How come I could know if there is no serious study about it? What is amazing, though, is that Amerindian DNA has been found in Europe, which may explain why some Europeans have some Amerindian looks... perhaps for same is no just coincidence.

                                Comment

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