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American Indian admixture in White Americans

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  • The Fly...

    I don't think that anybody who was born in the 50's could forget the orginal movie "The Fly".

    Maria

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    • Oh yes, it was brand "new" research in the 1950s.

      the 1948 paper by fruit fly geneticist Herman J. Muller
      Lecture delivered February 19th 1948. Published in Harvey Lectures, 43, 165-229
      http://post.queensu.ca/~forsdyke/xchromos.htm
      Originally posted by Maria_W
      I don't think that anybody who was born in the 50's could forget the orginal movie "The Fly".

      Maria

      Comment


      • 1950's?

        I went to high school in the 1950's (Sarasota Florida). And I never liked movies such as The Fly. I liked cowboy and Indian movies. And I always rooted for the Indians!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rainbow
          Here is the explanation I was given by email months ago:

          Dear Elizabeth:

          Dr. Thomas passed your email back to me to again respond to your inquiry. I think the information I gave you last Fall still holds true. The "Native American" genetics
          found in many Europeans such as Italians, Greeks and Turks do overlap with those of American Indian Native American genetics. Their genomic information is basically derived from the same group of markers. Also, as I am sure I stated previously, the influence of the Roman armies has been found throughout the parts of Europe that they occupied. "
          Just a comment. I figured out this after reading Jack Forbes'. There is another fact that complicates matters a little bit. That fact is that hundred of thousands of Amerindians, perhaps millions, were shipped as slaves to Europe in the early phases of the colonization of the Americas. They ended mainly in Spain, Portugal and France but also in England and the Netherlands, among other countries.

          No wonder Amerindian DNA was found in England. I bet there are quite a lot of people who is descendent of indigenous people in Europe, and not just descend from groups close to them, like mongols and turks.

          Kawashkar
          Last edited by kawashkar; 22 October 2007, 10:25 PM.

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          • NA Slavery

            Originally posted by kawashkar
            Just a comment. I figured out this after reading Jack Forbes'. There is another fact that complicates matters a little bit. That fact is that hundred of thousands of Amerindians, perhaps millions, were shipped as slaves to Europe in the early phases of the colonization of the Americas. They ended mainly in Spain, Portugal and France but also in England and the Netherlands, among other countries.

            No wonder Amerindian DNA was found in England. I bet there are quite a lot of people who is descendent of indigenous people in Europe, and not just descend from groups close to them, like mongols and turks.

            Kawashkar
            There is a lot of history and the NA slave trade. A lot of books and info on the web. Even the Tuscarora tribe in NC. Their people also with other tribes were taken into slavery. A big portion of the Tuscarora tribe move from NC to NY beacause of it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by kawashkar
              Just a comment. I figured out this after reading Jack Forbes'. There is another fact that complicates matters a little bit. That fact is that hundred of thousands of Amerindians, perhaps millions, were shipped as slaves to Europe in the early phases of the colonization of the Americas. They ended mainly in Spain, Portugal and France but also in England and the Netherlands, among other countries.

              No wonder Amerindian DNA was found in England. I bet there are quite a lot of people who is descendent of indigenous people in Europe, and not just descend from groups close to them, like mongols and turks.

              Kawashkar
              Where is the evidence of hundreds of thousands of "Amerindians" being shipped as slaves to Europe? I have seen records showing some Native Americans being taken to Europe but not in the numbers you suggest.

              John

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Johnserrat
                Where is the evidence of hundreds of thousands of "Amerindians" being shipped as slaves to Europe? I have seen records showing some Native Americans being taken to Europe but not in the numbers you suggest.

                John
                The evidence is on the same book I mentioned above. Now, the problem to prove it scientifically is that there is no clear way today of distinguish Asian form Amerindian admixture in Europeans. It is known Europeans do carry some small percentage of East Asian admixture on them, but it is not clear if theirs origin is only Asian or if there is also a part of Native American on them.

                Lot of Amerindians where carried to Europe and North Africa, from places like North America, the Spanish colonies and from Brazil. Theirs numbers are orders of magnitude smaller than the transatlantic African trade, but the fact is that many amerindians ended in places like Seville, Portugal and Britain. In Spain there are records of theirs presence. And not too long ago some British women were shown to have Amerindian ancestry.

                The problem is simple: nobody has payed too much attention to the topic. People assume the only reason for the demographic decline were contagious deseases, when there were quite a lot more, and more important like: slavery, shipping abroad, intermarriage and plain genocide.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by kawashkar
                  The evidence is on the same book I mentioned above. Now, the problem to prove it scientifically is that there is no clear way today of distinguish Asian form Amerindian admixture in Europeans. It is known Europeans do carry some small percentage of East Asian admixture on them, but it is not clear if theirs origin is only Asian or if there is also a part of Native American on them.

                  Lot of Amerindians where carried to Europe and North Africa, from places like North America, the Spanish colonies and from Brazil. Theirs numbers are orders of magnitude smaller than the transatlantic African trade, but the fact is that many amerindians ended in places like Seville, Portugal and Britain. In Spain there are records of theirs presence. And not too long ago some British women were shown to have Amerindian ancestry.

                  The problem is simple: nobody has payed too much attention to the topic. People assume the only reason for the demographic decline were contagious deseases, when there were quite a lot more, and more important like: slavery, shipping abroad, intermarriage and plain genocide.
                  I'm paying attention to the topic.
                  I used to know almost nothing about the history of the people of the Americas.

                  Comment


                  • Peabody told his pet boy the history of America. Still, I think my family mythology seems to match genetic testing. After all, the polymorphisms came from my ancestors.

                    Originally posted by rainbow
                    I'm paying attention to the topic.
                    I used to know almost nothing about the history of the people of the Americas.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by GregKiroKHR1bL1
                      Peabody told his pet boy the history of America. Still, I think my family mythology seems to match genetic testing. After all, the polymorphisms came from my ancestors.
                      Who is Peabody?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rainbow
                        Who is Peabody?
                        That's funny!

                        Mr. Peabody.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by R2-D2
                          That's funny!

                          Mr. Peabody.
                          Now I know who Peabody is. Thanks!
                          Sherman & Peabody look familiar. I did watch some Rocky & Bullwinkle (vintage reruns) on tv when I was a kid.

                          Comment


                          • Yes, that is the Peabody I was referring too. At first, it was all an amusing joke to me. And then as I read more, I found out something called point-of-view. And so, Peabody talked to me too.

                            After all, What-a-Mess is Prince Amir of Kinjan.

                            Originally posted by rainbow
                            Now I know who Peabody is. Thanks!
                            Sherman & Peabody look familiar. I did watch some Rocky & Bullwinkle (vintage reruns) on tv when I was a kid.

                            Comment


                            • Profitable slave traffic in Amerindians? Not recorded as such, although there were numerous well-known "curiosity" travellers and kidnappings , the most notable being Pocahontas; and even just *before* the Plymouth Colony, Squanto.

                              The decline of the Amerindian population had different proportionate causes depending on the sociobiology of each different community. The "initial population" estimates widely vary of course, but it is known that the population density encountered by the European invaders was much higher in city-dwelling Aztecs than in say, forest-dwelling Powhatans, making their loss by epidemics much more severe and rapid due to human-contact and fomitic transmission.
                              Also there was a tradition that Amerindians were unprofitable as slaves due to their instinctive indomitability and stoicism. Hence the Conquistadores, for instance, were driven to kill by attempts at compulsion rather than succeed in taming and harnessing; as De Las Casas graphically reported.

                              The decline of the Mayan civilisation had already occurred before Euro-domination, and is believed to be from environmental exhaustion from overpopulation, conflict over resources, and overbuilding.

                              But, all over, during Eurocolonization epidemic disease appears to have been the dominant genocidal engine, obviously the smallpox, but also many maladies, not fatal to immune Europeans , like pertussis, measles, chickenpox, but which were very potent in a population without previous ly acquired immunity.. To quote,

                              "The scope of the epidemics over the years was enormous, killing millions of people—in excess of 90% of the population in the hardest hit areas—and creating "the greatest human catastrophe in history, probably exceeding even the disaster of the Black Death that killed up to one-third of the people in Europe between 1347 and 1351." [Wikipedia]

                              The last straw (in USA) was the "Solution to the Indian Problem" conducted by a combination of legislation, and a surplus of the military, at the end of the Civil War, by which whole communities were knowingly resettled in land which could not keep them alive.

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                              • Indian Slaves

                                I recently ran across this site which refers to local as well as foreign trade of Indian slaves.

                                http://cita.chattanooga.org/slcmdc/timeline.html

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