American Indian admixture in White Americans

[rainbow]

Yes it could be any tribe. The school had many children from different tribes. As for your ancestor looking anglo. You can't go by looks. My MT-DNA goes straight to my 2nd GGrandmother who came from the Rio Grande. Pick the darkest Indian with that red color comming through her skin and that is my 2nd GGrandmother. Her first husband was white ( I descend from her 2nd not white husband ). Her son came out a snowball. Blond and blue eyed and he stayed that way. All her children from her 2nd husband were as dark as she was. My Great Grandmother as dark as her mother had my Grandmother who again came out a snowball. To look at my Grandmother you would never think she was Indian. My mother goes back to being dark. We believe her father was Indian. We dont know who he was

As for an adoption in your family, It is always possible. I am a 2nd generation adoptee. I was adopted and so was my birth mother.

As for your height, yes there is a height gene but like me you got the short gene. Everyone on my mother's side is very tall even the women accept for my one aunt. On my fathers side most are short but I have one uncle over 7'.

I guess we both got the short end of the stick!

Jodi

Mt-DNA Haplogroup B / mitosearch XKBS6

You're short too?
Years ago I lived in a small town for a while. There was a realistic-looking statue of an Indian (with a headdress on) outside one of the stores. It must've been 7' high. I used to pass by it on my home. Not knowing any real Indians I thought they must've been that tall, very tall. I've known people who have told me they were part Indian, but I thought they were either pulling my leg or it was just a teensy bit from so far back.
It's true that you can't always tell just by looking at a person.
When my AncestryByDna result said I was 17% Native American I assumed it was from my mothers side for 2 reasons, she has dark hair and eyes, and her mother was from North Carolina, home of the famous Cherokee, so I thought that must be the tribe I descend from, but then my moms test came back 00% NA. I never would have thought my father had any Indian on his side because he's from rural New Jersey, and he has light eyes and light brown hair (looks darker indoors), and I thought there were no Indians there, at least not since the colonial days. But now that I know about the Carlisle school, and their students went on to live in New Jersey, among other places, yes I could be from any tribe.
I wonder if there are distinct physical distances between tribes. Do I come from a short tribe? But, just as I was wrong about hair & eye color, then I guess I shouldn't go by height either.
I would like to, in the future, as it becomes available, if it's possible, to have comparison testing with people from the various tribes, to see who I match, to know which tribe I most likely come from. But only after it is refined and proven to be accurate. DNATRIBES matched me to Portugal, yet none of my ancestors came here from Portugal. I have since read, not from DNATRIBES, but from work that Sykes did, that most people from the British Isles match North and West Iberian (Celtic).

[Yaffa]

You're short too?
Years ago I lived in a small town for a while. There was a realistic-looking statue of an Indian (with a headdress on) outside one of the stores. It must've been 7' high. I used to pass by it on my home. Not knowing any real Indians I thought they must've been that tall, very tall. I've known people who have told me they were part Indian, but I thought they were either pulling my leg or it was just a teensy bit from so far back.
It's true that you can't always tell just by looking at a person.
When my AncestryByDna result said I was 17% Native American I assumed it was from my mothers side for 2 reasons, she has dark hair and eyes, and her mother was from North Carolina, home of the famous Cherokee, so I thought that must be the tribe I descend from, but then my moms test came back 00% NA. I never would have thought my father had any Indian on his side because he's from rural New Jersey, and he has light eyes and light brown hair (looks darker indoors), and I thought there were no Indians there, at least not since the colonial days. But now that I know about the Carlisle school, and their students went on to live in New Jersey, among other places, yes I could be from any tribe.
I wonder if there are distinct physical distances between tribes. Do I come from a short tribe? But, just as I was wrong about hair & eye color, then I guess I shouldn't go by height either.
I would like to, in the future, as it becomes available, if it's possible, to have comparison testing with people from the various tribes, to see who I match, to know which tribe I most likely come from. But only after it is refined and proven to be accurate. DNATRIBES matched me to Portugal, yet none of my ancestors came here from Portugal. I have since read, not from DNATRIBES, but from work that Sykes did, that most people from the British Isles match North and West Iberian (Celtic).

Yep! 5' 1 3/4". I lie and say 5'2". My aunt is 4' 10 1/2". She lies too and puts 4' 11". Most drivers licenses make you round off. My X is Eastern band Cherokee. Both his mother and his sisters are my height. He is tall. More Indian men tend to be tall than the women. It all depend on what gene you get. if your dad is around ( I mean no disrespect. My biological father passed away in 1986. I wish I could test his DNA) have him take a Y and MT. You may get lucky and get a direct line like I did. Have you tried the X test? Mine is pending for 8/13. There are more tribes in NC than just the Cherokee. Where is your family from in NC? Mine are from Wilkes, NC

Jodi

MT-DNA Haplogroup B / mitosearch XKBS6

[rainbow]

Have you tried the X test? Mine is pending for 8/13. There are more tribes in NC than just the Cherokee. Where is your family from in NC? Mine are from Wilkes, NC

Jodi

MT-DNA Haplogroup B / mitosearch XKBS6

I haven't tried the X test. There is no one else to test. I'm sure I must have dozens of second and third cousins, especially in NC, but I never met any of them or know them and they don't know of me either.

My 17% Native American comes from my fathers side, from New Jersey.

I'm 1/4 "Southern", from my maternal grandmothers side. The counties in North Carolina are Rowan and present-day Davie, formed from the larger county, Rowan, many years ago. She had lots of double cousins in Davie.

Elizabeth

[dnaval]

Thanks Tom!

Very interesting ..You obviously have done your homework on this.
Thank goodness for the experts...
I will look more at the sample results on dna tribes and get some
more info..
My ancestrybydna report by the way was.. IE 88% NA12% EA0% SSA0%
Maybe this would be a more accurate way to go...

Hope to learn more with this awesome group.

Thanks again!

You can't make a percentage estimate from Tribes numbers because all Tribes match scores are based on your entire allelic profile. Tribes is a profile-matching test not an admixture mapping test. Ancestry by DNA is an admixture mapping test.

The world match scores you gave in another thread were (appx) 130, 100, 50 and 10 for Mestizo. The only thing one can say about those is that you are 130x more likely to be A, 100x more likely to be B, 50x more likely to be C than to be a generic human. Your 10x likelihood of being Mestizo, although at the low end, is still significant compared to a generic human score of 1. You might be demonstrably, genealogically 100% of category A but your profile could still resemble to a marked degree that of categories B, C and D. Similarly, you might be genealogically 100% of category C but have an allelic profile that looks even more like categories A and B.

Tribes offers some sample .pdf's illustrating match scores ranges for persons of particular admixtures and a survey of world-wide allelic profiles. Whatever Tribes is measuring when they score for Mestizo, Tribes Mestizo turns-up in some surprising places, among populations with no known or no significant Native American admixture.

[dnaval]

Just a thought..

Well maybe because..
because John Smith did come to States from England.
Also noted: Pocahontas had 2 sons that stayed in England.
There may have been others that came to Europe during that time.but not sure..
I have thought on this some also...

Val

I'm from the East Coast. I think you are right that there was a lot of assimilation. I'm a white American. My family is from the East Coast. My AncestryByDna says I'm 17% Native American.

[Yaffa]

I haven't tried the X test. There is no one else to test. I'm sure I must have dozens of second and third cousins, especially in NC, but I never met any of them or know them and they don't know of me either.

My 17% Native American comes from my fathers side, from New Jersey.

I'm 1/4 "Southern", from my maternal grandmothers side. The counties in North Carolina are Rowan and present-day Davie, formed from the larger county, Rowan, many years ago. She had lots of double cousins in Davie.

Elizabeth

I am testing with my aledged sister but I do believe we share the same father. I look just like him. My test is almost done and she just sent hers back. FTDNA hasn't recieved her kit yet. Oh the waiting! I heard they may be able to put the X gene in a haplogroup one day.

My family that came from Wilkes/Ashe area is right next to Rowan and Davie.
In researching we have found evidence of Cherokee,Catawba and possible Saponi ( they have no record ) that came from VA and wound up in that area. If you read up on the history of Wilkes,NC, there was a hanging there. It involved Benjamin Clevland and William " The Tory " Riddle. Willaim Riddle has been proven to be Indian by his family and I have seen the records.. Believed to be Saponi ( cant prove but suspect ).He came from VA. William had it out with Benjamin Clevelan on Riddle's Knob ( border of Ashe and Davie Counties ). Benjamin Cleveland hung William and I believe 2 of his sons along with others in Wilkesboro. When he is hung he is just William " The Tory", no mention of him being Indian. They leave that fact out of history!

As far as locating your long lost relatives. There are people I can't retrace in my family. There are certain surnames I am realy intrested in but at this time
can not locate descendants to take a Y test. I contacted some of the administrators of the surname projects at FTDNA to see if any of my relatives might be in their projects. I have had some responces. Ya never know, you may get lucky.

Jodi

[Yaffa]

I haven't tried the X test. There is no one else to test. I'm sure I must have dozens of second and third cousins, especially in NC, but I never met any of them or know them and they don't know of me either.

My 17% Native American comes from my fathers side, from New Jersey.

I'm 1/4 "Southern", from my maternal grandmothers side. The counties in North Carolina are Rowan and present-day Davie, formed from the larger county, Rowan, many years ago. She had lots of double cousins in Davie.

Elizabeth

Also, your mother showing no Indian DNA, as I understand it with the fingerprint testing your mother may not have recievd the NA gene but one of her sibblings could have. I wonder if the NA gene could have passed to you through your grandmother and it skipped a generation. There are genes that do that like dibetes. My grandmother and all 8 of her siblings have sugar problems. One of her siblings got it the worst. She died in her 50's from complications from dibetes. My mother generation didn't get it but it came back on me and I am border line with sugar problems. I hope I dont come down with full blown dibetes. Also in my ancestors ( great grandma's generation )there is a lot of heart disease. Her father's family all had heart problems. Things do skip generations so I wonder if fingerprint testing does the same. I'm no expert on this testing.Ask the experts here and see what they think!

Jodi

[rainbow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_Indian_Industrial_School

Here is the published list of the children taken from their Indian families and put in the boarding school to assimilate into white society.

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page1.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page2.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page3.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page4.htm

[rainbow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_Indian_Industrial_School

Here is the full published list of the children taken from their Indian families and put in the boarding school to assimilate into white society. The new surnames given to the children vary from Adams to Zimmerman. With McIntosh, Wells, Harris, Hilton, Nelson, and hundreds (thousands?) more.

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page1.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page2.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page3.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page4.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page5.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page6.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page7.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page8.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page9.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page10.htm

http://members.aol.com/tawodi/carlisle/page11.htm

That is a list from just one of the many Indian boarding schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_boarding_school

Cultural genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Genocide

[Yaffa]

American Indian admixture

Thanks for that list

Jodi

[tomcat]

It's the Autosome, Jake ... everything gets mixed-up.

Also, your mother showing no Indian DNA, as I understand it with the fingerprint testing your mother may not have recievd the NA gene but one of her sibblings could have. I wonder if the NA gene could have passed to you through your grandmother and it skipped a generation. There are genes that do that like dibetes. My grandmother and all 8 of her siblings have sugar problems. One of her siblings got it the worst. She died in her 50's from complications from dibetes. My mother generation didn't get it but it came back on me and I am border line with sugar problems. I hope I dont come down with full blown dibetes. Also in my ancestors ( great grandma's generation )there is a lot of heart disease. Her father's family all had heart problems. Things do skip generations so I wonder if fingerprint testing does the same. I'm no expert on this testing.Ask the experts here and see what they think!

Jodi

Genes and markers can't skip a generation although genes may 'seem' to skip generations as they may not be 'expressed' in every generation.

Let's take as an example a genetic-based malady that requires two copies of the malady-causing gene in order for the malady to be expressed. And lets suppose a set of parents each have one copy of the problematic gene and one copy of the un-problematic gene, and that their genealogies indicate the malady had been expressed among some of their forebears, although neither of the parents exhibits the malady.

Their children may receive, either, two copies of the un-problematic gene, or, two copies of the malady-causing gene, or, get the same genetic make-up as their parents - one copy of each.

For the sibling that gets two copies of the un-problematic gene, the potential for the malady has been eliminated from their individual line (unless their mate has the gene or the mates of their children re-introduce the gene to their descendants).

The sibling that receives two copies of the malady-causing gene will exhibit the malady and will certainly pass-along one copy of the malady-causing gene to their children, but none of their children will exhibit the malady unless their mate also has a copy of the malady-causing gene to bequeath.

And the sibling that has the same genetic make-up as the parents has the same potential to pass-along or not pass-along as the parents of this example. So, in every generation - a group of siblings - the malady-causing gene is present, or not, may be expressed, or not, and is available for transmission, or not.

Same is true for 'markers' such as employed in ancestry-informative tests - SNP's and STR's. Parents have them. Each parent contributes 50% of their individual profile to all of their children. Some siblings get one assortment, other siblings get another assortment. But all siblings can only contribute to their offspring the markers they have received from the parents.

Of course none of this applies to Y and Mt-DNA that descends, unrecombined, through paternal and maternal lines. But this does apply, in somewhat different way, to semi-autosomal X-chromosome markers and genes. And it illustrates why, for genealogical purposes, it is always best to autosomally test as many family elders as possible, and then test oneself and members of one's generational cohort - siblings and cousins.

Hope this helps.

[Yaffa]

American Indian Admixture

Genes and markers can't skip a generation although genes may 'seem' to skip generations as they may not be 'expressed' in every generation.

Let's take as an example a genetic-based malady that requires two copies of the malady-causing gene in order for the malady to be expressed. And lets suppose a set of parents each have one copy of the problematic gene and one copy of the un-problematic gene, and that their genealogies indicate the malady had been expressed among some of their forebears, although neither of the parents exhibits the malady.

Their children may receive, either, two copies of the un-problematic gene, or, two copies of the malady-causing gene, or, get the same genetic make-up as their parents - one copy of each.

For the sibling that gets two copies of the un-problematic gene, the potential for the malady has been eliminated from their individual line (unless their mate has the gene or the mates of their children re-introduce the gene to their descendants).

The sibling that receives two copies of the malady-causing gene will exhibit the malady and will certainly pass-along one copy of the malady-causing gene to their children, but none of their children will exhibit the malady unless their mate also has a copy of the malady-causing gene to bequeath.

And the sibling that has the same genetic make-up as the parents has the same potential to pass-along or not pass-along as the parents of this example. So, in every generation - a group of siblings - the malady-causing gene is present, or not, may be expressed, or not, and is available for transmission, or not.

Same is true for 'markers' such as employed in ancestry-informative tests - SNP's and STR's. Parents have them. Each parent contributes 50% of their individual profile to all of their children. Some siblings get one assortment, other siblings get another assortment. But all siblings can only contribute to their offspring the markers they have received from the parents.

Of course none of this applies to Y and Mt-DNA that descends, unrecombined, through paternal and maternal lines. But this does apply, in somewhat different way, to semi-autosomal X-chromosome markers and genes. And it illustrates why, for genealogical purposes, it is always best to autosomally test as many family elders as possible, and then test oneself and members of one's generational cohort - siblings and cousins.

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much for that info. I was not sure how the autosomal DNA test worked since I have not taken it. I just knew that it appeared that things seem to skip generations in talking to family members about our genetics.
My Great Grandmother died of heart problems. Her father's side had serious heart problems but it has not passed down to the future generations so I guess something cancelled out that gene and was not transmitted to us. This is good to know. Lets hope it doesn't kick back in.Thanks again.

[marvallen]

I think we all could use a little basic genetics study. Hard to understand and comment on things that one has little or no comprehenson of.

[rainbow]

Thanks for that list

Jodi

You're welcome Jodi.

And I hope everyone reads the list.

[Yaffa]

American Indian Admixture

You're welcome Jodi.

And I hope everyone reads the list.

Just so you know, it is not a complete list of all the children. My friend's grandparents were there. He has their records but they are not on the list above. I hope one day they issue a complete list.

Thanks
Jodi