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Atlas of the Human Journey Revised

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Stevo
    There is also a possibility that at least some of the R1b1c in Turkey got there as a result of the historically documented movement of the Galatians across Europe and into Anatolia in the early part of the 3rd century B.C.

    Galatians were Keltoi steve


    • #47
      Originally posted by Eki
      Then again, if the Germanic people really originated from the north and the Celtic lived south of them, it's possible that the Germanic were mostly I1a and they got R1b later from the Celtic:
      Not so simple.

      Celt and German are linguistic/cultural terms and not restricted to a single y-haplogroup.

      For one thing, most Germanicists agree that Proto-German probably originated with the Jastorf and neighboring Harpstedt cultures in Northern Germany and the Netherlands, both predominantly R1b areas.

      For another, and I have mentioned this before, Proto-German experienced a shift away from the original Indo-European consonants, which indicates the presence of a fairly suibstantial non-IE substrate population. Since that shift does not occur in other locales with less I and much more R, it seems likely that the I1a/I1c population may be responsible for it and were not originally speakers of any Indo-European language at all, let alone German.

      The sound shift that occurred in Proto-German seems to indicate that German is the product of the mixture and fusion of an Indo-European-speaking population with a non-Indo-European-speaking population.

      Thus there is in the very nature of Proto-German itself an indication that it was not the product of a single y-haplogroup but rather of the interaction of Indo-European and non-Indo-European elements.

      A further clue might be Finland itself, which has a large I1a population that apparently has inhabited that area for a long time. Not only does Finland not speak a Germanic language, it does not even speak an Indo-European language (although there are Swedes in Finland who speak Swedish).

      It seems to me that Proto-German arose out of the contact and interaction among and between tribal groups that were mainly R1b, I1a, I1c, and R1a.

      It is impossible to isolate any one of them and identify it as the Germanic y-haplogroup.