Celts were haplogroup I?

[Wena]

Well it seems like I am not allowed to post here

The Norway

[Wena]

or there is some kind of error?

The Norway

[Jim Denning]

'Celts were haplogroup I?'

'Celts were haplogroup I?'


some were most weren't the keltoi came from 10 main tribes and were matricidal for membership. they assimilated other smaller tribes introducing assorted ydna

[Wena]

Why are the content of my posts refused?

What is going on?

[Deirwha]

freaking weird, isn't it.

mail me at [email protected] and I will get them on here.

[Clochaire]

'Celts were haplogroup I?'


some were most weren't the keltoi came from 10 main tribes and were matricidal for membership. they assimilated other smaller tribes introducing assorted ydna

This makes sense--most serious historians consider Celtic identity to be primarily linguistic or cultural.

But did you mean matriarchal rather than matricidal?

To my knowledge, matriarchy among the Celts was limited to Picts--although prominence of goddess cults and several instances of celebrated individual Celtic women (e.g. Buodicca, Grainne Mhaol) suggests that Celts accorded a greater degree of equality
than their Mediterrenean or Germanic counterparts.


Jack

[Jim Denning]

This makes sense--most serious historians consider Celtic identity to be primarily linguistic or cultural.

But did you mean matriarchal rather than matricidal?

To my knowledge, matriarchy among the Celts was limited to Picts--although prominence of goddess cults and several instances of celebrated individual Celtic women (e.g. Buodicca, Grainne Mhaol) suggests that Celts accorded a greater degree of equality
than their Mediterrenean or Germanic counterparts.


Jack

they were hebrew
like jews being jewish is from the mother being jewish
think of the movie 10 commandments moses adopted princess momhad black slaves both the princess and black slaves were assimilated probably to moses levi tribe
ftdna was started to prove ethiopians were leite and they did

the hebrew tribes crossed caucasus mts where akenaskis live today
i am e1b1ba2. 50% + of my matches are askenazis. i am 6000 yrs older as that then the next closest e3b COX.

AND I AM IRISH lol if my pic is still there i am very red beard blond moustached strawberry blonde haired black hair chested Irish fron longford /cavan

and i am not roman

it was the greeks that called them keltoi from the name the assyrians khumri
derived from ohmri

[Jim Denning]

keltoi =
balkins to thrace. germany,swiss, scandanavians spanish portugeusse,french, scots,irish,brits, welsh basicly europe pre slav

[Clochaire]

they were hebrew
like jews being jewish is from the mother being jewish
think of the movie 10 commandments moses adopted princess momhad black slaves both the princess and black slaves were assimilated probably to moses levi tribe
ftdna was started to prove ethiopians were leite and they did

the hebrew tribes crossed caucasus mts where akenaskis live today
i am e1b1ba2. 50% + of my matches are askenazis. i am 6000 yrs older as that then the next closest e3b COX.

AND I AM IRISH lol if my pic is still there i am very red beard blond moustached strawberry blonde haired black hair chested Irish fron longford /cavan

and i am not roman

it was the greeks that called them keltoi from the name the assyrians khumri
derived from ohmri

1. This sounds like the traditional account of the origin of the Gaels--don't think I've heard similar story for Welsh, Breton, Galicians, etc.

I think the story goes that a man called Gaeldas Glass (ie, ancestor of the Gaels) or the likes was a Hebrew contemporary of Moses. He married the daughter of an Egyptian Pharoh whose name was Scotia (hence Latin name for Gaels: Scot).

Their descendants migrated to Spain. After some type of warfare in Spain, the great king Milesius and his sons migrated to Ireland. Hence the arcane but not-unheard-of epithet for the Irish people, the Milesians.

The traditional genealogies say that each of Milesius' sons became the founder of all the major Gaelic noble houses--I am fuzzy on details, but I remember sons named Ith and Eremon.

Anyhow, I think archaelogists and geneticists generally agree that there does seem to have been a major migration from Spain to Ireland. But I hadn't heard anyone address the accuracy of the story before that point.

And although these ancient Gaels followed their genealogies quite carefully, I don't think they adopted any race laws quite so proscriptive as the Jewish Chalakah. From what I have read, Gaelic fixation with genealogy was driven by a legal structure that defined a person's rights by his or her role within his or her father's tribe. These people having been nomadic for so long, it appeared more sensible to them to define jurisdictions by blood ties than geographical residence.

2. As for the greece, thrace thing, Celtic raids on that part of the classical world are well known. Some Celts had a stable kingdom as far east as the location of modern day Turkey.

This also relates to Ireland, because of the legendary origin of some of the inhabitants arrived BEFORE the Milesians--even the legends say that Milesians were never more than a dominant minority, and that the Irish people have a genetically diverse history.

Maybe you can fill in the details here, Jim, because my memory is fuzzy on this point. But I think the legend is that the Fir Bolg people, at the earliest known point in their story, escaped from slavery in Greece, and after a circuitous migration route, ended up in Ireland.

I've seen some historians attribute a continental Celtic origin to some of these "pre-Milesian" people. For instance, they claim that the tribe name Fir Bolg refers to the Belgae of N. Gaul. Could be, but I don't think that is consistent with the current idea of R1b1b2h being predominant Y clade of La Tene people, and relative scarcity of the clade in modern Ireland.

But who knows? As some smart people have pointed out on these threads, until more people have SNP tested, there's probably a severe limit on what we can say with certainty.

Anyhow, Milwaukee's Irish Fest kicks off today, and I will lift my glass to all of you out there. Adh mor!

Jack

[ylgitn]

Re Clochaire's interesting post:

As a J2 with my paternal line roots in Ireland, I would like to think that the "traditional account" of the origin of the Gaels accounts for my having a haplogroup of middle eastern origin.

But since the overwhelming majority of Irish folks are R1b, and only a miniscule fraction have been found to be J, G, E, etc., it would seem that the science simply does not support the traditional account.

Correct?

[Clochaire]

Re Clochaire's interesting post:

As a J2 with my paternal line roots in Ireland, I would like to think that the "traditional account" of the origin of the Gaels accounts for my having a haplogroup of middle eastern origin.

But since the overwhelming majority of Irish folks are R1b, and only a miniscule fraction have been found to be J, G, E, etc., it would seem that the science simply does not support the traditional account.

Correct?

I am only 37 years old. So, not having been there in person, I can't authoritatively confirm nor deny.

Jack

[Oriel]

The Celts

The majority of Irish people tested to date are R1b1c which is M269.Ireland would be considered to be last stronghold of the Celts.So if you are downstream of the SNP M269 then you are descended from the Celts.There is a lot of talk of the German tribes but doesn't anyone out there know that the celts originated in Germany.The Belgae were a group of Celtic tribes from Germany and Belgium is said to have taken its name from Belgae.If one looks in the Oxford dictionary the meaning for "celt" = indo German tribe.

Slan Oriel

[Deirwha]

thank you

oh, and to get 10 characters:

Thank you for tying of that little dangling thread.

[Clochaire]

The majority of Irish people tested to date are R1b1c which is M269.Ireland would be considered to be last stronghold of the Celts.So if you are downstream of the SNP M269 then you are descended from the Celts.There is a lot of talk of the German tribes but doesn't anyone out there know that the celts originated in Germany.The Belgae were a group of Celtic tribes from Germany and Belgium is said to have taken its name from Belgae.If one looks in the Oxford dictionary the meaning for "celt" = indo German tribe.

Slan Oriel

I guess that's true. And if Fir Bolg really does mean descendant of the Belgae, and Belgium is, at least today, a stronghold of R1b1b2g, then I guess I'd expect descendants of Fir Bolg in Ireland also to be R1b1b2g.

Slan

Jack

[Clochaire]

Re Clochaire's interesting post:

As a J2 with my paternal line roots in Ireland . . . a haplogroup of middle eastern origin.

Well, without regard to any of the numerous and better historically documented migrations to Ireland, what about the Formorians?

Weren't the Formorians, who had their stronghold on Tory Island off N.W. Donegal supposed to be a mediterranean people?

Lugh Lamhfhada was the Apollo, you might say, of Irish mythology. His mother was supposed to be the daughter of the Fomorian king, Balor.

Jack