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What Historical Event Caused E3b to Move?

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  • What Historical Event Caused E3b to Move?

    Because there aren't enough E3b threads here (cough, cough), and the current ones are getting long, I thought to post this question. I'm especially interested in what I see as a consensus that there was a Neolithic move of E3b's from the Middle East to the Balkans, where E3b1 seems to center around before they disbursed throughout Europe. Another, question, why did some E3b's go to the Balkans and others over to North-West Africa, and did they go at the same time due to the same historical event?

    Once we have gathered a few of the facts and/or theories, perhaps the novels, operas and hymns of this people movement can begin to be written.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Marttinen
    Because there aren't enough E3b threads here (cough, cough), and the current ones are getting long, I thought to post this question. I'm especially interested in what I see as a consensus that there was a Neolithic move of E3b's from the Middle East to the Balkans, where E3b1 seems to center around before they disbursed throughout Europe. Another, question, why did some E3b's go to the Balkans and others over to North-West Africa, and did they go at the same time due to the same historical event?

    Once we have gathered a few of the facts and/or theories, perhaps the novels, operas and hymns of this people movement can begin to be written.
    My guess is that there were a number of factors that led to the Neolithic expansion of cultivators from the Levant. The inventions of farming and animal husbandry, and the more settled village life that accompanied them, no doubt resulted in an increase in population. As the population increased and the amount of arable land per person decreased, the landless (including probably the younger sons of families that practiced primogeniture) left their home villages in search of new fields to farm.

    There may have been other pressures, as well: e.g., depletion of fields through over-farming, droughts, warfare, oppressive rulers, and incursions by nomads.

    The expanding Neolithic population in Mesopotamia and the Levant was probably the primary factor, however.
    Last edited by Stevo; 14 June 2006, 12:20 PM.

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    • #3
      "The Journey of Man" says something similar. It proposes that the drying of areas and larger deserts as a factor in getting people to live near rivers and on the coast. This was a gradual process, according to that theory. What puzzles me is that people then selected areas markedly different than the characteristics of the land they were used to.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Marttinen
        "The Journey of Man" says something similar. It proposes that the drying of areas and larger deserts as a factor in getting people to live near rivers and on the coast. This was a gradual process, according to that theory. What puzzles me is that people then selected areas markedly different than the characteristics of the land they were used to.
        I think the answer to the puzzlement in your last sentence is that man, when he engages in discovery, doesn't necessarily know what he will discover. He probably expects to find something similar to what he knows. But when Columbus or earlier Europeans discovered the New World, they found many species of flora and fauna that seemed strange to them. Then they learned to adapt to what they found and use it. For instance, the introduction of potatoes and tobacco to Europe came from the voyages of discovery to the Americas. Plus, Europeans who settled the New World brought some of their own culture and products with them - horses are one example.

        Similarly, when and if we colonize other planets, we will probably find many strange conditions of nature to which we will adapt and we will bring our own technology and culture to change the natural conditions we find. So, I imagine that when Neolithic migrations from the Near East to Europe took place the same process of adaptation and introduction of their culture and technology occurred. In fact, their introduction of agriculture to Europe is the major reason we know about their migration.

        Mike Maddi

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        • #5
          Part of my question was "Why the Balkans?" (Sounds like the question some of us who "did" Europe in the mid-80's asked fellow student travellers who didn't take the airplane route from Greece to Italy).

          Deeper than that is finding out why the Journey of Man (for Europeans anyway) took us from "sun and desert" to "forest and mist." There's also a twinge of "where do we have the urge to go from here?"

          My comparitive religions teacher noted that the gods of people even change with travels. When folks moved from Egypt to Caanan, the consistent, death and rebirth gods of Egypt (reflecting the dependable flooding of the Nile)became the wild, wily and unpredicatable gods of thunder and the winter rains, reflecting the often raging rivers ruled by the baals. We're restless, I guess.

          This human condition sounds like the phrase used in the travelouges of every nation on earth: "______ a land of contrasts" (Insert India, Australia, Canada, United States, Equatorial Guinea...).

          I know that modern-day Finns who migrate to Canada favour northern Ontario, Minnisota and Upper Michigan because it reminds them of home. I know they also like Florida because it reminds them of everything home is not.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Marttinen
            I know that modern-day Finns who migrate to Canada favour northern Ontario, Minnisota and Upper Michigan because it reminds them of home. I know they also like Florida because it reminds them of everything home is not.
            Actually modern-day Finns don't usually migrate to North America. Those who do, are usually highly educated professionals who go where ever there's need for their special skills. Then of course there are some rich retired Finns who move to Florida, but I think the main reason is that it's warm and in some parts of Florida they can get service in their own language.

            In the late 19th century and early 20th century when hundreds of thousands of Finns migrated to North America, I think they moved to the northern parts of the US and Canada primarily because it was easier to get a job they had done before in their old home country, such as being a lumber jack or a miner.

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            • #7
              You're right about the present. Ontario has the largest concentration of Finns outside of Finland but the cultural centres where older Finns gathered are closing because there is no "new blood" coming from Finland and the next generation in Canada is mixing with others. Still, the Finnish contribution is heavily felt in Northern Ontario. The cottage with a sauna lifestyle has been taken up by many others with French, Italian and Eastern European origin who are here.

              My parents moved here to Ontario in 1950 after 5 years of living in Sweden. Things were still pretty tense in Europe after the war (and near the Russian border) so they decided either on Canada or Argentina. Interestingly, many from my parent's generation still mix only with other Finns and quite a few of their friends haven't felt the need to pick up more than a word or two of English.

              The example of the Finns shows how a significant movement of people can begin and end in a decade or so, depending on the cause(s). That is why I'm wondering if the movement from the Middle East to the Balkans from E3b wasn't precipitated by some sharp historical event (like an invasion or cataclism) or it was a gradual trickle over the centuries due to desertification or wander-lust.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Marttinen
                You're right about the present. Ontario has the largest concentration of Finns outside of Finland but the cultural centres where older Finns gathered are closing because there is no "new blood" coming from Finland and the next generation in Canada is mixing with others. Still, the Finnish contribution is heavily felt in Northern Ontario. The cottage with a sauna lifestyle has been taken up by many others with French, Italian and Eastern European origin who are here.

                My parents moved here to Ontario in 1950 after 5 years of living in Sweden. Things were still pretty tense in Europe after the war (and near the Russian border) so they decided either on Canada or Argentina. Interestingly, many from my parent's generation still mix only with other Finns and quite a few of their friends haven't felt the need to pick up more than a word or two of English.

                The example of the Finns shows how a significant movement of people can begin and end in a decade or so, depending on the cause(s). That is why I'm wondering if the movement from the Middle East to the Balkans from E3b wasn't precipitated by some sharp historical event (like an invasion or cataclism) or it was a gradual trickle over the centuries due to desertification or wander-lust.
                My grandmother's sister and brother emigrated to the US before WW2, but I don't know where they lived. I just have a faint childhood memory of the sister visiting Finland. I also remember hearing the brother's son commited suicide after coming home from the Vietnam war. According to church records, also one of my grandfather's brothers died in Brooklyn, NY, in 1945, but I don't know what he was doing there.

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