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  • FYI:

    the defining marker for R is M207, not M173. That is the marker for R1. My uncle was classified as P by FTDNA because he was M45+ and M173- but this was wrong. Further testing--at another company, but now through FTDNA as well--showed that he was M207+ and also M124+ which makes him R2. He belongs to a cluster of Ashkenazi Jewish R2s. We're speculating this is of Central Asian origin but it may not be as R2 is also found in the Middle East at low frequency, but mostly in India.

    Both Genographic and FTDNA have been misclassifying R2s and misdefining R and it is now being cleared up.

    As for Uyghurs, they are a mixture of peoples, including East Asian, Central Asian, Turkic and Iranian. I've been there. The faces range from European-looking to Chinese-looking, sometimes in the same family. My uncle has an R2 match among them, and I have a J2 match among them myself.

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    • Originally posted by dentate
      As for Uyghurs, they are a mixture of peoples, including East Asian, Central Asian, Turkic and Iranian. I've been there. The faces range from European-looking to Chinese-looking, sometimes in the same family. My uncle has an R2 match among them, and I have a J2 match among them myself.
      It seems Uyghurs love DNA testing

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      • Originally posted by F.E.C.
        It seems Uyghurs love DNA testing
        I think the Genographic Project gives them free beer and a Pamela Anderson pin up for each cheek scraping.

        That's what they gave O'Connor and me, anyway.

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        • Originally posted by dentate
          FYI:

          the defining marker for R is M207, not M173. That is the marker for R1. My uncle was classified as P by FTDNA because he was M45+ and M173- but this was wrong. Further testing--at another company, but now through FTDNA as well--showed that he was M207+ and also M124+ which makes him R2. He belongs to a cluster of Ashkenazi Jewish R2s. We're speculating this is of Central Asian origin but it may not be as R2 is also found in the Middle East at low frequency, but mostly in India.

          Both Genographic and FTDNA have been misclassifying R2s and misdefining R and it is now being cleared up.
          Thanks for that. We needed the clarification.

          Here is an excellent chart that summarizes what is known about Y-haplogroup R.

          Originally posted by dentate
          As for Uyghurs, they are a mixture of peoples, including East Asian, Central Asian, Turkic and Iranian. I've been there. The faces range from European-looking to Chinese-looking, sometimes in the same family. My uncle has an R2 match among them, and I have a J2 match among them myself.
          We're all a mixture.

          But isn't R1b the biggest Y-haplogroup among the Uyghurs?

          I think it is, but I could be wrong.

          The first map here seems to indicate that R1b and R1a are the leading y-haplogroups among the Uyghurs, with O in third place.

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          • That one shows a lot of influence of R1B

            This chart doesn't...I'm sure to come across some good studies over time.
            http://www.dnaheritage.com/ysnptree.asp

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            • Originally posted by M.O'Connor
              That one shows a lot of influence of R1B

              This chart doesn't...I'm sure to come across some good studies over time.
              http://www.dnaheritage.com/ysnptree.asp
              I think the dnaheritage map is more general and covers a region rather than a people.

              The y-haplogroup world map at http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/Wo...groupsMaps.pdf has a pie chart labeled "UG" to represent just the Uyghurs.

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              • Those of you with unusual or questionable R1b status, and especially those of you who appear to be matching Uyghurs: Have you considered the possibility that your unusual R1b is actually Native American?

                Consider that on the mtDNA side, it took a long time for geneticists to admit that haplogroup X is truly one of the Native American haplogroups and not just European admixture. The latest thinking is that the Native American X subclade, X2a, may actually have arrived from across the Atlantic (either by water or by ice). Even if it came from Asia, though, it is an example of geneticists who initially shrugged off a haplogroup as "colonial admixture" and then had to admit its true Native American status.

                So is this at all possible for R1b also? Up until now, geneticists vigorously refuse to seriously consider that R1b might be a genuinely Native American yDNA haplogroup. But consider:

                1) If indeed mtDNA X2a arrived from across the Atlantic, I sincerely doubt those ladies came over with no male escorts. So a paleo-European haplogroup must have come along with them.

                But even if you reject the Atlantic crossing hypothesis:

                2) If R1b is indeed fairly common among Uyghurs, couldn't it have crossed Beringia too?

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                • I have a 12/12 native siberian match.

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                  • Originally posted by lgmayka
                    Those of you with unusual or questionable R1b status, and especially those of you who appear to be matching Uyghurs: Have you considered the possibility that your unusual R1b is actually Native American?

                    Consider that on the mtDNA side, it took a long time for geneticists to admit that haplogroup X is truly one of the Native American haplogroups and not just European admixture. The latest thinking is that the Native American X subclade, X2a, may actually have arrived from across the Atlantic (either by water or by ice). Even if it came from Asia, though, it is an example of geneticists who initially shrugged off a haplogroup as "colonial admixture" and then had to admit its true Native American status.

                    So is this at all possible for R1b also? Up until now, geneticists vigorously refuse to seriously consider that R1b might be a genuinely Native American yDNA haplogroup. But consider:

                    1) If indeed mtDNA X2a arrived from across the Atlantic, I sincerely doubt those ladies came over with no male escorts. So a paleo-European haplogroup must have come along with them.

                    But even if you reject the Atlantic crossing hypothesis:

                    2) If R1b is indeed fairly common among Uyghurs, couldn't it have crossed Beringia too?
                    Interesting idea.

                    There is also the lost Norse colony in L'anse aux Meadows and thereabouts, which could account for some Native American R1b.

                    But if that was the source, one would expect Scandinavian rather than Siberian near hits, I guess.

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                    • Originally posted by M.O'Connor
                      I have a 12/12 native siberian match.
                      So is it possible that you could be the "missing link"--the Native American R1b that all the haughty professors claim does not exist?

                      I'm sorry if I sound too critical of academia, but I am annoyed that their published papers routinely dismiss R1b as "colonial admixture"--even when they admit to finding occasional anomalies they cannot explain!

                      If you look on the popular haplogroup maps, the Americas will often show a sliver of "Other." No other continent is treated so shabbily.

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                      • To get R1B to America from the far east, they have to go across at Siberia or lower latitudes using water craft.

                        I just want to throw this in...

                        9000 yr old Kennewick Man from Washinton has been compared to the Ainu People of Japan, and also polynesian.

                        Could there be R1B within the Ainu? Being a coastal people they could be related to the ancient ones who were riding the waves in that area.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AinuGroup.JPG
                        Can you see the possibility in they're faces ?

                        http://www.mnh.si.edu/arctic/ainu/html/room01.html
                        Last edited by M.O'Connor; 11 June 2006, 07:01 PM.

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                        • (From Wikipedia on) the Jomon and Ainu people.

                          The world's first known pottery was developed by the Jomon people in the 14th millennium BC. The name, "Jomon" (繩紋 Jōmon), which means "cord-impressed pattern", comes from the characteristic markings found on the pottery. The Jomon people were Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, though at least one middle to late Jomon site ca. 1200-1000 BC had a primitive rice-growing agriculture (南溝手 Minami misote site). They relied primarily on fish for protein. They had very likely migrated from North Asia or Central Asia.

                          The genetic study suggests that the Ainu retain a certain degree of their own genetic uniqueness, while having some genetic affinities with regional populations in Japan and the Nivkhi. (Tajima 2004) Based on more than a dozen genetic markers on a variety of chromosomes and from archaeological data showing habitation of the Japanese Archipelago dating back 30,000 years, it is argued that the Jomon actually came from northeastern Asia and settled on the islands far earlier than some have proposed.
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people
                          aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

                          Doesn't give haplo types though?

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                          • Ainu


                            http://www.dai3gen.net/epage0.htm


                            DNA study? http://www.dai3gen.net/epage19.htm
                            Last edited by M.O'Connor; 11 June 2006, 07:51 PM.

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                            • I'm not familiar with the DNA numbers they use in their studies of
                              Ainu people

                              http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/lin....550204.x/abs/

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                              • The people in that 1904 picture of the Ainu looked like some of them could fit into several different ethnic groups. The guy on the left looks like a 1960's Haight-Asbury hippie.

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