Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Palestinian and Jewish DNA

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Palestinian and Jewish DNA

    http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Ne...00-IPArabs.pdf

    Abstract

    High-resolution Y chromosome haplotype analysis
    was performed in 143 paternally unrelated Israeli and
    Palestinian Moslem Arabs (I&P Arabs) by screening for
    11 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. Two
    frequent haplotypes were found among the 83 detected:
    the modal haplotype of the I&P Arabs (~14%) was spread
    throughout the region, while its one-step microsatellite
    neighbor, the modal haplotype of the Galilee sample
    (~8%), was mainly restricted to the north. Geographic
    substructuring within the Arabs was observed in the highlands
    of Samaria and Judea. Y chromosome variation in
    the I&P Arabs was compared to that of Ashkenazi and
    Sephardic Jews, and to that of North Welsh individuals.
    Abstrakt

    At the haplogroup level, defined by the binary polymorphisms
    only, the Y chromosome distribution in Arabs and
    Jews was similar but not identical. At the haplotype level,
    determined by both binary and microsatellite markers, a
    more detailed pattern was observed. Single-step microsatellite
    networks of Arab and Jewish haplotypes revealed
    a common pool for a large portion of Y chromosomes,
    suggesting a relatively recent common ancestry. The two
    modal haplotypes in the I&P Arabs were closely related to
    the most frequent haplotype of Jews (the Cohen modal
    haplotype). However, the I&P Arab clade that includes
    the two Arab modal haplotypes (and makes up 32% of
    Arab chromosomes) is found at only very low frequency
    among Jews, reflecting divergence and/or admixture from
    other populations."

  • #2
    Cont...

    ...

    According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Moslem Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who
    had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the
    core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992). On the other hand, the ancestors of the great majority of present-day Jews lived outside this region for almost two millennia. Thus, our findings are in good agreement with historical evidence and suggest genetic continuity in both populations despite their long separation and the wide geographic dispersal of Jews.

    ...

    http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/12334.html

    "Palestinians, however, differ from other Arabs in some ways. As the web site for Harper's Magazine reported, one study showed that Jews and Palestinians have common ancestry that is so recent that it is highly likely that at least some of the Palestinian blood actually descends from Jews. [3] Another study by New York University confirmed a remarkable similarity between Jewish and Palestinian genes. "Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," said Dr. Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, who worked on the study. "And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years. [4]

    According to several other studies, Palestinians and Jews are genetically closer to each other than either is to the Arabs of Arabia or to Europeans [5]. A study of congenital deafness identified an allele limited to Palestinian and Jews of Ashkenazi origin (those who lived in Europe in recent centuries), suggesting a common origin. Furthermore, Y-chromosome polymorphism is very similar among Palestinians and Sephardic Jews. [6]. While current studies show a lot of similarities and genetic closeness may be used to confirm claims of both sides to Israel/Palesitne, but right now, results are incomplete and are subject to much interpretation. [7] The above statements are based on the currently available information, but may be questioned by future studies.

    There is a significant Christian population among Palestinian Arabs, leading some to claim that at least part of the Palestinian population (the Christians) descended from the original followers of Christ, who were, of course, Jews (they were Jews ethnically, even if they didn't follow Judaism). Despite extensive research, I have not been able to find any scientific studies supporting this claim.

    Furthermore, the fact that there is joint heritage of 2,000-3,000 years ago does not mean that new genes were not introduced into the Palestinian genetic pool. For one, genes from the Arabian peninsula were introduced after the spread of Islam. As part of the Arabian genes, African genes were introduced, as described above.

    Several studies have shown that Palestinians have a larger than usual (among Arabs) European blood. This may be explained by the Crusades and the establishment of a Crusader Kingdom in medieval times. It is highly likely that at least some percentage of the Palestinian population mixed with Europeans, either through intermarriage or rape of Arab women by Europeans, as well as European women by Arabs. Additionally, cities with significant Palestinian populations, including Bethlehem, Nazareth and Jerusalem, are sites of many Christian holy landmarks, which draw a large number of European tourists. This, too, may have played a role in the disproportionate amount of European genes found among Palestinians.

    In more recent times, among Palestinian Muslims, there is a significant number of people who are recent immigrants from other Arab states. Official records of the Ottoman Empire (colonial power until WWI) and Britain (colonial power from the 1920's to 1948) show that there was very significant Islamic immigration into holy land. In some years, there were more Muslim new-comers than Jewish

    Comment


    • #3
      What's the Y chromosome haplogroup most widespread among Palestinians and Jews which is said to be that of Abraham?

      Comment


      • #4
        I would think that the common haplogroup between them would be J.

        The closest results I have seen in the ysearch database was a genetic distance of 2 between an Arab and a Jew on a 12 marker test !!

        I am not sure how the genetic distance was calculated, because they only exactly match in 9 out of 12 markers with the remaining three markers showing a step mutation of 1 each.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shaibani
          I am not sure how the genetic distance was calculated, because they only exactly match in 9 out of 12 markers with the remaining three markers showing a step mutation of 1 each.
          By any chance, were two of the markers showing with different values DYS389-1 & DYS389-2? To get the actual value for 389-2 [using FTDNA standards] you must subtract the 389-1 value from the 389-2 value. In the following example, the genetic distance is only 1:

          Sample 389-1 389-2
          #1.........14......30
          #2.........13......29

          In each of the above samples, the value for 389-2 is 16. The only difference is in the 389-1 value.

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually they were

            Sample 389-1 389-2
            #1.........14......31
            #2.........13......30

            So now I understand that the difference in this case is only 1.

            Thankx DMac. This information surely clears the confusion.

            Comment


            • #7
              The amount of overlap in the haplotypes of the respective groups is influenced by a number of factors, two of which go in opposite directions. One of the two factors is the number of Jews and Arabs in the database. Jews are overrepresented in Ftdna's database compared to the general population but Arabs are not. If there were more Arabs in the database a number of national groups as well as Jews would have more Arab matches.
              On the other hand, the number of matches is a function of the number of markers or STR loci in the test. Jewish and Arab genetic history which is somewhat overlapping (see the research of Nebel as well as that of Hammer), nevertheless diverged at some point. Tests with more markers (25, 37 etc.) reflect more recent history and should reveal fewer matches.
              Last edited by josh w.; 4 June 2006, 12:34 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Noaide

                I really doubt that the arab immigration was bigger then the jewish immigration. Could you please refer me to your sources?

                Actually since the knowledge on this forum is exellent, i have a question i haven´t been able to get the answer to yet. Does any one have statistics over where in Egypt the Jews lived under the sixtteenth centrury and the sevententh centrury?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Please check sources in the initial postings, I do not remember that I have claimed that Arab immigration was higher than Jewish immigration.

                  Noaide

                  Originally posted by ViktorA
                  Noaide

                  I really doubt that the arab immigration was bigger then the jewish immigration. Could you please refer me to your sources?

                  Actually since the knowledge on this forum is exellent, i have a question i haven´t been able to get the answer to yet. Does any one have statistics over where in Egypt the Jews lived under the sixtteenth centrury and the sevententh centrury?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "show that there was very significant Islamic immigration into holy land. In some years, there were more Muslim new-comers than Jewish"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry I see it now, however they dont tell where these people came from, did they come just from the area over the border (in other words more or less the same people) or did they came from Arabia? Anyway "significant" is not the same as "all" or even "half", maybe not even "quarter".

                      Originally posted by ViktorA
                      "show that there was very significant Islamic immigration into holy land. In some years, there were more Muslim new-comers than Jewish"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ViktorA
                        Actually since the knowledge on this forum is exellent, i have a question i haven´t been able to get the answer to yet. Does any one have statistics over where in Egypt the Jews lived under the sixtteenth centrury and the sevententh centrury?
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._Jews_in_Egypt:
                        On Jan. 22, 1517, the Turkish sultan, Selim I., defeated Tuman Bey, the last of the Mamelukes. He made radical changes in the affairs of the Jews, abolishing the office of nagid, making each community independent, and placing David ibn Abi Zimra, at the head of that of Cairo.
                        ..........
                        In 1641 Samuel b. David, the Karaite, visited Egypt. The account of his journey (G. i. 1) supplies special information in regard to his fellow sectaries. He describes three synagogues of the Rabbinites at Alexandria, and two at Rashid (G. i. 4).

                        http://www.bh.org.il/Communities/Archive/egypt.asp:
                        From 1301 on, the discriminatory laws increased, the communities dwindled and at the end of the 15th century less than 500 Jews remained in Egypt.
                        The Jews who were expelled from Spain began to arrive in 1492 and organized themselves in separate communities from the Mustarabs, the local Jews. In the course of time, the two communities merged together.

                        Some other info is also found from this link: http://www.theforgottenrefugees.com/...d=37&Itemid=34

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Speaking of Egyptian Jews, note that there is one Karaite Jew in ysearch:
                          XJMHK
                          (there may be more, but that's the one I have seen). His haplogroup is listed as unknown, but all his closest matches are L (!).

                          cacio

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X