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  • M35 map

    I've been identified as an E3b. The Genographic map shows a nice curving arrow for mutation M35 going from Egypt to a cave in Greece, without touching the coast of Israel/Palestine, though it does fly over southern Turkey. Does this mean that M35 has not actually been found in Israeli archaeological remains, and maybe not even in Turkey? Is the path from Egypt to Greece just a hypothesis?

  • #2
    The following is a very good paper about the subject you are interested in:
    http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/hape3b.pdf

    I hope you'll find it useful.

    Roberto

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    • #3
      M35 (E3b) migrations

      Originally posted by Calypte
      I've been identified as an E3b. The Genographic map shows a nice curving arrow for mutation M35 going from Egypt to a cave in Greece, without touching the coast of Israel/Palestine, though it does fly over southern Turkey. Does this mean that M35 has not actually been found in Israeli archaeological remains, and maybe not even in Turkey? Is the path from Egypt to Greece just a hypothesis?
      Welcome Calypte,

      I'm sure many of us could surely be reminded by your questions about our own search for the origin and migrations of our distant ancestors.

      Brace yourself for a journey of surprising discoveries, for there's much to learn ahead.

      Of course the Genographic map is a general simplification of ancient human migrations but it serves the purpose of visually representing what are the currently held theories by most anthropologists and geneticists.

      Besides what Roberto has already suggested, browse the E3b Project page and see how diverse our haplogroup really is. Compare your numbers to those on the group's list. If you have already transfered your data from the Genographic Project to Family Tree DNA, and if you'd like to you can also jump on our E3b bandwagon and join the project.

      You can also visit Garvey's E3b webpage and follow the links to the main must-read scientific studies about this haplogroup. Most likely there will be some things hard to understand but don't despair. We have all faced the same learning curve and gradually (but surely) we start absorbing this new knowledge.

      Warm Regards,

      Victor
      Victor
      Registered User
      Last edited by Victor; 23 January 2006, 10:03 AM.

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      • #4
        Thank you for your replies. The E3b Project page says I have to sign up for a new test, which I don't understand, since FTDNA already has the material I submitted for Genographic.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Calypte
          Thank you for your replies. The E3b Project page says I have to sign up for a new test, which I don't understand, since FTDNA already has the material I submitted for Genographic.
          You don't need to sign up for any additional tests to join as those are only optional. Having your data at FTDNA is enough. There's no obligation of any kind.

          In the future if you find the need to dig deeper into your DNA then you can decide if you want another test or not.

          Victor

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          • #6
            Thank you. I signed up for an additional $79 test. But it appears that to join the E3b project, I must sign up for an additional test for that. Yes? No?

            The Genographic test result was a great surprise to me, but naturally it raised maybe more questions than it answered. I don't mind testing again, but I don't want to do anything redundant.

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            • #7
              Joining the E3b project

              Originally posted by Calypte
              Thank you. I signed up for an additional $79 test. But it appears that to join the E3b project, I must sign up for an additional test for that. Yes? No?

              The Genographic test result was a great surprise to me, but naturally it raised maybe more questions than it answered. I don't mind testing again, but I don't want to do anything redundant.
              If you signed for the deep E3b clade test then that will allow you to narrow down the geographical places where your ancestors might have originated or migrated thru. The E3b deep clade test is not redundant with the basic Genographic 12-marker test and it will elucidate more (although not all) of your questions.

              Your results, when they are available, have to be understood in the proper context, which will require research of a different kind on your part, that is genealogical and/or historical events related to your family's lineage. More surprises could be on the way! But first, while you patiently wait for your results, surf around and read the comments and questions of others so you can form your own opinions.

              Regards,
              Victor


              p.s. Unless FTDNA has recently changed the rules, it wasn't necessary to sign for additional test to join the E3b project. Maybe it could be that your haplotype is one of those where the haplogroup can't be statistically ascertained. Did somebody explicitly asked you to sign for more tests?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Victor
                p.s. Unless FTDNA has recently changed the rules, it wasn't necessary to sign for additional test to join the E3b project. Maybe it could be that your haplotype is one of those where the haplogroup can't be statistically ascertained. Did somebody explicitly asked you to sign for more tests?
                The E3b Project page specifically says: "To join the E3b surname project, please fill out the order form below. Your DNA test kit will be mailed tomorrow." One can't just sign up for it.

                I've done quite a bit of genealogical research, and I know exactly where my surname ancestors lived in the Franche-Comte region of France back to about 1700. My operating hypothesis was that I was descended from one of the Germanic tribes, perhaps Burgundians. I even took some quiet pride in my barbarian ancestry. The E3b diagnosis destroys this hypothesis.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Calypte
                  The E3b Project page specifically says: "To join the E3b surname project, please fill out the order form below. Your DNA test kit will be mailed tomorrow." One can't just sign up for it.
                  I'm glad that you have joined, one way or the other. And, if you're like most of us I doubt that you'd resist for too long the curiosity to open the next door and step into a deeper level.
                  You may not know it, but the subclade tests became available just recently and there are several of us who are also expecting the new results in the coming weeks.

                  I've done quite a bit of genealogical research, and I know exactly where my surname ancestors lived in the Franche-Comte region of France back to about 1700. My operating hypothesis was that I was descended from one of the Germanic tribes, perhaps Burgundians. I even took some quiet pride in my barbarian ancestry. The E3b diagnosis destroys this hypothesis.
                  That's what I expected, that you'd be a genealogy or history enthusiast, something to explain your decision to take the DNA tests. And regarding a possible Barbarian ancestry, remember that with Y-dna we're only tracing back the paternal lineage, which means that your E3b haplogroup does not necessarily preclude that possibility on your other genealogical lines. In other words, we don't know to what extent your oldest neolithic ancestors intermingled with the Burgundians or any other tribes for that matter. In the future, when geneticists are able to catalog all SNPs, not only from the Y chromosome but from all other chromosomes, new tests could possibly reveal in greater detail much more of what we're made of. So don't lose your quiet pride just yet. You, and all of us, might gain new reasons to be quietly proud of all our ancestors. Let our present reflections honor their past sacrifices.

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                  • #10
                    Thank you, Victor. After your insistance that I didn't need to be tested again to join E3b, I took another look. I was getting to the E3b page by doing a search from the FTDNA home page. Going that way, one does have to be tested to join the E3b Project. But by following links from the "join" button on my personal page, I found the place to join using the results of my Genographic test. I'm describing this in case this question comes up again.

                    Yes, there are plenty of opportunities for barbarians in my ancestry, but I had hopes for my surname line. Sigh!

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