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D5 mtDNA in Scandinavia

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  • D5 mtDNA in Scandinavia

    Anyone heard of D5 mtDNA in Scandinavia? So far it seems I will be a lonely soul in the FTDNA database.

    I read some litterature that some Saami especially in Finland have this haplogroup.
    Last edited by Noaide; 4 January 2006, 10:33 AM.

  • #2
    No. Scandinavians have a bit of Z while D5 is found in Finns (Meinila 2001), Karelians (Sajantila 1995), Komi, Volga-Finnic people (Bermisheva 2002), Northern Russians (Tambets 2004, data of O.Balanovsky), Poles (Malyarchuk 2002). It's unlikely that Saami is the only one source of Zs in Europe, but in case of D5, I think, it's not far off from being right.
    Last edited by vraatyah; 4 January 2006, 12:01 PM.

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    • #3
      One article I know of state that one subgroup of Saami in Finland have a frequency of 27%, but then again the sample was very small, just over 20.

      Else also in small samples D5 has some higher frequency at the northern norway eastern coast. In it observed in my area but it is very few.

      Comment


      • #4
        So if that D person is in Scandinavia, and D is a supposed Native American group, then it is possible mtDNA A got to me somehow other than an American Indian woman.

        Family mainly does not seem concerned or bothered, but still find it a bit odd.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Eternitat
          So if that D person is in Scandinavia, and D is a supposed Native American group, then it is possible mtDNA A got to me somehow other than an American Indian woman.

          Family mainly does not seem concerned or bothered, but still find it a bit odd.
          you missed one detail of a great importance: your own mtdna type is substantially NA and found outside Americas only in Eskaleuts. As to D5, it's an Asian marker probably linked to Asian component of Saami and Eastern Finns.

          There are some rare and isolated cases of American mtdna outside Americas in my database. The first case is A4 111-209-223-290-319-362 and C1 223-298-325-327 in Canarian sample of Rando. You know about it. Others are:

          1)

          A4 111-223-290-319-362
          C1 051-223-298-325-327

          M. Crespillo, J. A. Luque, M. Paredes, ·R. Fernández, E. Ramírez, J. L. Valverde
          Mitochondrial DNA sequences for 118 individuals from northeastern Spain
          International Journal of Legal Medicine 114 :130–132 2000

          Interestingly, it's the only one forensic study on Spain and all other published samples considered to be population rather than forensic don't show NA mt at all.

          2) 2 identical sequences C1 223-298-311-325-327 in Iceland, Helgason 2000 paper. The most intriguing thing is that it cannot be Inuit admixture because all Inuit sequences are of A haplogroup. That's a population sample, not a forensic, and the origin of this NA type is still unclear.

          3) exactly the same C1 sequence was found in large forensic sample from Lower Saxony, Pfeiffer 1999 paper. It was intended not to check ethnicity of the probands, so the individual of C haplogroup may have Latin background.

          Comment


          • #6
            vraatyah,

            My D5 is identical to Linage 3 in this research paper.

            http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB...rtikelNr=22789

            Do you have any of these or related ones in your database or know any more articles about D5 in areas in Scandinavia and North-West Russia?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Noaide
              vraatyah,

              My D5 is identical to Linage 3 in this research paper.

              http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB...rtikelNr=22789

              Do you have any of these or related ones in your database or know any more articles about D5 in areas in Scandinavia and North-West Russia?
              Here are the published ones identical to these 2 of Delghandi:

              Tajima 2004
              Buryats
              126-136-182C-183C-189-223-360-362
              16048-16569
              1 of 61

              Derbeneva 2002
              Mansi
              126-136-189-223-360-362 73-263
              16039–16519; 73-297
              -5176AluI -8838HaeIII +12026HpaI (10397 10398 10400 12705)
              1 of 98

              Malyarchuk 2002
              Russians, Southern
              126-136-182C-183C-189-193.1C-223-360-362 73-150-263-309.1C-309.2C-315.1C
              15997-16401; 29-408
              1 of 201

              Sajantila 1995
              Saami Inari
              126-136-189-223-360-362
              16024-16383
              5 of 22

              Sajantila 1995
              Saami Karasjok
              126-136-189-223-360-362
              16024-16383
              1 of 20

              Dupuy 1996
              Saami Karasjok
              126-136-189-223-360-362
              16024-16383
              5 of 133

              Delghandi 1998
              Saami
              126-136-182C-183C-189-223-360-362 73N-146-263
              16024-16362; 62-363
              2 of 61


              and one complete sequence from Mansi, Ingman 2001 paper:

              73-150-263-309.1C-309.2C-315.1C-489-750-752-1107-2706-3702-4769-4883-5178A-5301-7028-8701-8838-8860-9180-9540-10397-10398-10400-10685-10873-11719-11944-12026-12705-12811-13759-14766-14783-15043-15301-15326-16126-16136-16182C-16183C-16189-16223-16360-16362

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks,

                Great job! I see Inary Saami have a higher percentage, do you believe this Saami group have a higher ratio than other Saamis. I believe my great grand mother line may belong to the Inari Saami or maybe in more general the East-Saami. As I remember many of the Inari Saami was refugees from the Petsamo exodus during the war.

                That 5 og 22 Inari Saami probably is this paper you refer to.

                Lahermo P, Sajantila A, Sistonen P, Lukka M, Aula P, Peltonen L, Savontaus M-L: The genetic relationship between the Finns and Finnish Saami (Lapps): Analysis of nuclear DNA and mtDNA. Am J Hum Genet 1996;58:1309-1322

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are these really identical? I checked my numbers against the Inari Saami who is the closest cluster I can imagine geographically outside but close to Norway. I did not match all numbers, however I seem to fit with one Byriat east of Lake Baikal

                  Is my reading wrong?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It seems that the authors published this sample twice. The paper we refer to is:

                    Antti Sajantila, Paivi Lahermo, Tiiu Anttinen, Matti Lukka, Pertti Sistonen, Marja-Liisa Savontaus, Pertti Aula, Lars Beckman, Lisbeth Tranebjaerg, Tobias Gedde-Dahl, Laurie Issel-Tarver, Anna DiRienzo, Svante Paabo

                    Genes and Languages in Europe: An Analysis of Mitochondrial Lineages
                    Genome Research 5 :42-52, 1995


                    >this Saami group have a higher ratio than other Saamis

                    Noaide, the sample is too small to make conclusions. Maybe, they have more D5. I'm not sure of whether this makes sense. If two related groups differ in the percentages of some markers, apriori we can attribute it either to the drift or to real subdivision of the population.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Noaide
                      Are these really identical? I checked my numbers against the ...
                      They are. Noaide, don't count the length of c-tracts between 300 and 315 and between 16182 and 16193. Tracts can vary even in close relatives!

                      Valery
                      Last edited by vraatyah; 5 January 2006, 02:10 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vraatyah
                        If two related groups differ in the percentages of some markers, apriori we can attribute it either to the drift or to real subdivision of the population.
                        Perhaps, my post could mislead you. Actually, the drift may cause the subdivision of a population. I meant to say that it can be

                        1) a random variation of the frequency of mtdna alleles (ie haplogroups), when other markers (Y for instance) don't support such a subdivision. In other words, a drift of maternal lineages only;
                        or
                        2) actual subdivision of the Saami population (of any origin - drift, admixture etc) If it's really so, the populations have to differ by genetic systems other than mtdna.
                        Last edited by vraatyah; 5 January 2006, 02:42 PM.

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                        • #13
                          http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1181943

                          "According to published data, the frequency of haplogroup D5 is relatively high in China (Yao et al. 2002). D5 is also present among Mongols and Siberians (Kolman et al. 1996; Derbeneva et al. 2002b). However, the Saami haplogroup D5 lineages, with the HVS-I motif 16126-16136-16360 and its derivatives (defined as “D5b” by Derenko et al. 2003), have been identified only in some northern and eastern European populations (among Karelians, Finns, Estonians, North-Russians, and Komis) and in some Siberian populations but not in Samoyeds (table 1). This suggests, again, the lack of gene flow from Samoyeds to eastern Europe."

                          So it seems D5b is local to Sapmi, Fenoscandia and North-West Russia

                          I wonder what is the definition for "North-Russians", what is in that basket?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Noaide
                            I wonder what is the definition for "North-Russians", what is in that basket?
                            you'll have to wait until my colleague Oleg Balanovsky publishes his data on Russians.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Noaide
                              defined as “D5b” by Derenko et al. 2003
                              according to Tanaka's classification, the complete sequence AY570524 from Starikovskaya's paper

                              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/v...e&val=46242454

                              falls into D5a haplogroup and belongs neither to D5a1 nor to D5a2.
                              Last edited by vraatyah; 6 January 2006, 08:36 AM.

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