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  • Humans in England 700,000 yrs

    By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer
    Wed Dec 14, 2:04 PM ET
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/...early_humans_2

    LONDON - Ancient tools found in Britain show that humans lived in northern Europe 200,000 years earlier than previously thought, at a time when the climate was warm enough for lions, elephants and saber tooth tigers to also roam what is now England.

    Scientists said Wednesday that 32 black flint artifacts, found in river sediments in Pakefield in eastern England, date back 700,000 years and represent the earliest unequivocal evidence of human presence north of the Alps.

    Scientists had long held that humans had not migrated north from the relatively warm climates of the Mediterranean region until half a million years ago.

    "The discovery that early humans could have existed this far north this long ago was startling," said Prof. Chris Stringer, a paleontologist at the Natural History Museum, one of four British scientists involved in the study who announced the finding at a news conference in London. Their discovery is detailed in the scientific journal Nature.

    In a commentary in Nature, Wil Roebroeks of Leiden University in The Netherlands said the evidence of human activity at Pakefield was "rock solid."

    Roebroeks, who was not involved in the study, said it showed that "early humans were evidently roaming the banks of these rivers ... much earlier than hitherto thought for this part of Europe."

    But another outside expert called for caution.

    "One always has to be skeptical, given that previous claims of early human presence in northern Europe have had problems with the date or authenticity of the artifacts found. If indeed subsequent findings support this discovery, it would be very exciting and would change our ideas about the adaptability of early humans," Alison Brooks, an anthropologist at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., said in an interview.

    Stringer said now scientists can search for human remains, and perhaps find humans arrived in the region even earlier than 700,000 years ago.

    "We have a whole new area of research opening up to us," he said.

    Prof. Jim Rose of the University of London, another researcher involved in the study, said that 700,000 years ago, England was still connected the European mainland and enjoyed relatively short periods of balmy weather between the time that massive glaciers swept through the area, freezing and reforming the landscapes.

    During such thaws, he said, early humans would have been able to migrate to England from the Mediterranean and enjoy mild winters, flat landscapes and major rivers.

    Rhinoceroses, elephants, saber tooth tigers, lions, hippopotamuses and bears lived in the area at the time. The scientists said they don't know whether the humans used the discovered sharp-edged tools to kill animals for food, or merely to scavenge from carcasses that predators left behind.

    The artifacts suggest that the early humans did not colonize northern areas of Europe, but merely expanded their migratory patterns there when the weather permitted, the scientists said.
    By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer
    Wed Dec 14, 2:04 PM ET


    Pakefield, a coastal village 120 miles (190 kilometers) northeast of London, is one of the few areas where glaciers preserved, rather than destroyed, the sediment that contained ancient artifacts, Rose said. Coastal erosion is now opening up cliffs around Pakefield, exposing fossils and artifacts.

    Before that discovery the earliest unambiguous traces of human beings in Europe north of the Alps were dated to about 500,000 years ago, and included flint artifacts, bones of mammals and even some human remains that were discovered in Bosgrove on the southern coast of England.

    The earliest traces of human presence in southern Europe are at least 800,000 years old and include materials that were discovered in Atapuerca, Spain.

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    any comments?

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    another interesting find was in South Carolina, USA
    http://allendale-expedition.net/pres...es/1117pr.html


    Are you sure we aren't related to any of these Folk?
    Last edited by M.O'Connor; 16 December 2005, 05:14 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by M.O'Connor
    By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer
    Wed Dec 14, 2:04 PM ET
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051214/...early_humans_2

    LONDON - Ancient tools found in Britain show that humans lived in northern Europe 200,000 years earlier than previously thought, at a time when the climate was warm enough for lions, elephants and saber tooth tigers to also roam what is now England.

    Scientists said Wednesday that 32 black flint artifacts, found in river sediments in Pakefield in eastern England, date back 700,000 years and represent the earliest unequivocal evidence of human presence north of the Alps.

    Scientists had long held that humans had not migrated north from the relatively warm climates of the Mediterranean region until half a million years ago.

    "The discovery that early humans could have existed this far north this long ago was startling," said Prof. Chris Stringer, a paleontologist at the Natural History Museum, one of four British scientists involved in the study who announced the finding at a news conference in London. Their discovery is detailed in the scientific journal Nature.

    In a commentary in Nature, Wil Roebroeks of Leiden University in The Netherlands said the evidence of human activity at Pakefield was "rock solid."

    Roebroeks, who was not involved in the study, said it showed that "early humans were evidently roaming the banks of these rivers ... much earlier than hitherto thought for this part of Europe."

    But another outside expert called for caution.

    "One always has to be skeptical, given that previous claims of early human presence in northern Europe have had problems with the date or authenticity of the artifacts found. If indeed subsequent findings support this discovery, it would be very exciting and would change our ideas about the adaptability of early humans," Alison Brooks, an anthropologist at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., said in an interview.

    Stringer said now scientists can search for human remains, and perhaps find humans arrived in the region even earlier than 700,000 years ago.

    "We have a whole new area of research opening up to us," he said.

    Prof. Jim Rose of the University of London, another researcher involved in the study, said that 700,000 years ago, England was still connected the European mainland and enjoyed relatively short periods of balmy weather between the time that massive glaciers swept through the area, freezing and reforming the landscapes.

    During such thaws, he said, early humans would have been able to migrate to England from the Mediterranean and enjoy mild winters, flat landscapes and major rivers.

    Rhinoceroses, elephants, saber tooth tigers, lions, hippopotamuses and bears lived in the area at the time. The scientists said they don't know whether the humans used the discovered sharp-edged tools to kill animals for food, or merely to scavenge from carcasses that predators left behind.

    The artifacts suggest that the early humans did not colonize northern areas of Europe, but merely expanded their migratory patterns there when the weather permitted, the scientists said.
    By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer
    Wed Dec 14, 2:04 PM ET


    Pakefield, a coastal village 120 miles (190 kilometers) northeast of London, is one of the few areas where glaciers preserved, rather than destroyed, the sediment that contained ancient artifacts, Rose said. Coastal erosion is now opening up cliffs around Pakefield, exposing fossils and artifacts.

    Before that discovery the earliest unambiguous traces of human beings in Europe north of the Alps were dated to about 500,000 years ago, and included flint artifacts, bones of mammals and even some human remains that were discovered in Bosgrove on the southern coast of England.

    The earliest traces of human presence in southern Europe are at least 800,000 years old and include materials that were discovered in Atapuerca, Spain.

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    any comments?

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    another interesting find was in South Carolina, USA
    http://allendale-expedition.net/pres...es/1117pr.html


    Are you sure we aren't related to any of these Folk?
    How can they be sure the tools were used by humans? I recently saw on TV an interesting documetary that showed how capuchin monkeys used rocks to crack open some seed. Capuchin monkeys live in South America, so humans weren't the first simians on the American continent:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

    Transport of tools and mental representation: is capuchin monkey tool behaviour a useful model of Plio-Pleistocene hominid technology?

    Jalles-Filho E, Teixeira da Cunha RG, Salm RA.

    Departamento de Fisiologia, Instituto de Biociencias, Universidade de Sao Paulo, R. do Matao-Travessa 14-no 321, Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil. [email protected]

    Capuchin monkeys display greatly developed tool-using capacities, performing successfully a variety of tool-tasks. Impressed by their achievements in this respect, some investigators have suggested that capuchin tool-using behaviour could be used as a model of the tool behaviour of the first hominids. The transport of tools, a task requiring complex cognitive capabilities, is an essential ingredient in the technological behaviour of the first hominids. In this way, to qualify as another source for modelling hominid behavioural evolution, capuchins had to exhibit proficiency in the transport of tools. We investigated this problem through experiments designed to elicit the transport of objects. The results showed that the monkeys were able to transport food to be processed with the use of tools, but failed when the tools themselves had to be transported. Our hypothesis is that a limited capacity for abstract representation, together with the lack of a regulatory system ensuring that the food would not be lost and consumed by another individual during the search for and transport of the tools, were responsible for such a failure. We conclude that the tool-using behaviour of capuchins presents no functional analogy with the tool behaviour of the Plio-Pleistocene hominids, and that capuchin monkeys are a very inadequate source for modelling Plio-Pleistocene hominid's technological behaviour.

    Comment


    • #3
      derinos

      The 700,000 ybp East Anglia site had no human fossils, but good artifactual evidence implying hominid presence.

      The 500, 000 ybp Boxgrove site near Portsmouth, Hampshire had a tooth and a large tibia, probably H.Heidelbergensis. A profusion of uniform and workmanlike hand axes, many unused despite a plethora of butchered large animal bones, suggests an obsessional craftsman, or a source of barter.
      This seashore site is now 20 miles inland, elegantly preserved in silt. A rich beach and a cliff over which large animals could have fallen or be made to fall, set in a long subtropical interglacial interval, led to the site being called "Fairweather Eden" the title of a pleasant widely informative archaeology text.

      Are we related to Boxgrove Man? Yes, we are the sole persisting separate branch from an extinct mutual trunk of, say 1 million years ago.
      It is sobering to reflect that our major 10,000yr civilisation is only about the same time-distance into an interglacial respite, as was "Fairweather Eden".

      Comment


      • #4
        Major, major, major difference between humans and capuchin monkeys. The monkeys use rocks as tools. The humans CREATE tools by MODIFYING the rocks. That is the evidence discussed here; MANUFACTURE, not just use.

        The question of whether we modern humans descend from the earlier humans present in Europe and Asia has pretty much been settled by this DNA genetic analysis. Despite thousands and thousands of tests, no living human has been found whose mtDNA or Y DNA is derived from a branch older than African L1, and all those of Eurasian and Native American descent share common ancestry within the past 80,000 years. Heidelbergensis and the Pakefield humans were uncles and aunts, not grandma and grandpa.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dentate
          Major, major, major difference between humans and capuchin monkeys. The monkeys use rocks as tools. The humans CREATE tools by MODIFYING the rocks. That is the evidence discussed here; MANUFACTURE, not just use.
          I know, but I was thinking that when the monkeys bang rocks together, they could sometimes break into pieces that might resemble the crudest tools of ancient hominids or humans.

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree that we are not directly related to England's suspected Inhabitants of 700,000 years ago.
            The more-Ancient inhabitants of England were already there, or already there and gone by the time our Ancestors got there.

            Could we belong on the same Darwin Branch someplace?
            Last edited by M.O'Connor; 17 December 2005, 04:24 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I read back a few posts... and a million Years or more for a common ancestor sounds logical to me.

              Comment


              • #8
                News of Egyptian Study

                http://www.world-science.net/exclusi...7_egyptfrm.htm

                Comment


                • #9
                  derinos

                  1.M.O'Connor-Nice Egyptian specimen.
                  Timescales? On the DNA timescale we all are now thinking, those Egyptian neo-mesolithics are practically modern. Impressive though, how rapidly they progressed materially once they had a food and energy surplus. A bit like USA 1600-2000 which was even quicker, for future arechaeologists! What next?

                  2. Are we related to Boxgrove Man?
                  We agreed that the CroMagnons were the latest branch of an ancient trunk in Africa that gave us now-extinct branches like H. Neanderthals, Heidelbergensis, Boxgrove Man and going back, H. Habilis, Afarensis, and many others in the fossil record.
                  We are proud as H.Sapiens-Sapiens that we are the latest in a long line of the improved hominid versions periodically coming out of Africa.
                  We emerged 70,000 years ago.
                  We wandered about and by 30,000 years ago, had superceded our uncle, H.Neanderthalis, the latest previous model.
                  What next? 70.000 years is a long time.
                  Are there not any more improved versions, sneaking quietly out of Africa?
                  Is Homo Supercessor waiting in the wings?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I believe our ancient ability to kill at a distance, enabled us to conquer the world.

                    As far as a Human Supercessor...I don't think we have to worry in our time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lions in England? I believe it. That helps explain all the 'lion rampant' crests.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rainbow
                        Lions in England? I believe it. That helps explain all the 'lion rampant' crests.
                        Just for information the "Crest" is what sits on top of the helm. The shield is not a crest.

                        FWIW

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GvdM
                          Just for information the "Crest" is what sits on top of the helm. The shield is not a crest.

                          FWIW
                          lion rampant family crests

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rainbow
                            family crests
                            There is no such thing as a family crest. There are family arms which only follow the direct male bloodline of the original arminger, they do not belong to everyone with the same surname. Crests are the decoration that sits on top of the helm, nothing more.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GvdM
                              There is no such thing as a family crest. There are family arms which only follow the direct male bloodline of the original arminger, they do not belong to everyone with the same surname. Crests are the decoration that sits on top of the helm, nothing more.
                              Geesh...why are you nitpicking? Crests are what I call the emblem associated with a certain person/family. In my family tree there are many of them. Whatever you call them. I call them crests. I have a 'charm' for a bracelet, from the National Society Magna Charta Dames, with a lion rampant on it. That is from my maternal line.

                              Back to the point.....I believe there were lions in England.
                              Last edited by rainbow; 28 June 2006, 06:34 PM.

                              Comment

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