Haplogroup R1a

[GvdM]

There is a new forum for Y-haplogroup R here.

It's just getting started, so register and start posting some threads.

Discuss Great-grandfather R, his son Grandfather R1, and the wild-eyed boys, R1a and R1b!

You should post an announcement "Welcome Message" at the new forums Rich.

[Stevo]

You should post an announcement "Welcome Message" at the new forums Rich.

Done.

Thanks for creating the forum on your site, George.

That was very cool.

[Stevo]

There is a new forum for Y-haplogroup R here.

It's just getting started, so register and start posting some threads.

Discuss Great-grandfather R, his son Grandfather R1, and the wild-eyed boys, R1a, R1b, and R2!

I didn't leave out R2.

All the Rs are welcome, as well as anyone with an interest in Y-Haplogroup R.

[sitw]

1Ra newcomer

I didn't leave out R2.

All the Rs are welcome, as well as anyone with an interest in Y-Haplogroup R.

OK, folks, with great interest I've read your extensive communication and finally decided to add my 2 cents. I am of 1Ra but don't claim to be a Viking. I am of Jewish background and originate from Ukraine. As far as I know, my grandparents (I am talking of the male line) were Jewish (by origin, not necessarily by religion, which is often a point of confusion). They all were blond and blue eyed individuals. Once I've obtained my results from National Geographic, I started my own research and found a lot of amusing information.
To avoid being boring, I can only tell you that based on what I found out and that sounds to me quite relevant, our 1Ra haplogroup is largely present in Slavs population originally brought there by ancient Kurgan people of Iranian origin. Please do not confuse ancient Iranians with present day Iran, of which only eastern part carries relatively pure genes. These ancient Iranians gave origin to a number of tribes including Scythians, Slavs and later Khasars (of whom my persona probably originates). Ancient Iranians might have rather light appearance.
I do not want to touch the "hot" Aryan topic otherwise my message will be too extensive. As to the Vikings, my sources indirectly indicate the contribution of ancient Iranians, that spread north, to their origin as well. Anyway, the forum is quite exiting even though you sometime deviate into politics.

sitw
1Ra
[email protected]

[lgmayka]

I am of 1Ra but don't claim to be a Viking. I am of Jewish background and originate from Ukraine.
...
To avoid being boring, I can only tell you that based on what I found out and that sounds to me quite relevant, our 1Ra haplogroup is largely present in Slavs population originally brought there by ancient Kurgan people of Iranian origin. Please do not confuse ancient Iranians with present day Iran, of which only eastern part carries relatively pure genes. These ancient Iranians gave origin to a number of tribes including Scythians, Slavs and later Khasars (of whom my persona probably originates).

Welcome. The Viking connection for R1a applies, if at all, to the British Isles only.

The most common view does associate R1a with both Kurgans and Proto-Indo-Europeans, but not 'Iranians'. Kurgan cultures appeared on the steppes north of the Black Sea, not in Iran:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan

And of course, the Iranian language family is only one descendant of Proto-Indo-European.

A narrow, arguably biased minority tries to equate Indo-European with Aryan, and then Aryan with Iranian; but this is simply verbal legerdemain and should not fool anyone.

R1a became common, almost ubiquitous, across the steppes of Eastern Europe and Western and Central Asia; and as you say, various tribes and cultures in that large region arose having a large or even predominant R1a component.

As you say, a common view is that R1a among European Jews, and particularly among Levites, may stem from Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century, then joined the larger Jewish community when their state fell from power. Levy-Coffman discusses this possibility in her paper:

http://www.jogg.info/11/coffman.pdf

Please consider joining the Polish(-Lithuanian-Ukrainian-Belarusian-Latvian) Project, which embraces all who trace their ancestry back to the Rzeczpospolita, the Polish-Lithuanian Republic of the Renaissance:

http://www.ftdna.com/public/polish

You must have a Family Tree DNA account to do so. Genographic Project members can create a Family Tree DNA account (with no charge or obligation) by clicking through the hyperlink at the bottom of the Genographic personal page labeled, "Learn More." With a Family Tree DNA account, you can:

- Join a project and compare your results to those of your ancestral countrymen

- Upload your DNA results semi-automatically into the public Ysearch database for use by researchers (you can set your name to 'Name Withheld' if you wish)

- Order additional tests to distinguish nearer from more distant relatives.

[sitw]

Search for the ancestors

Welcome. The Viking connection for R1a applies, if at all, to the British Isles only.

A narrow, arguably biased minority tries to equate Indo-European with Aryan, and then Aryan with Iranian; but this is simply verbal legerdemain and should not fool anyone.

Please consider joining the Polish(-Lithuanian-Ukrainian-Belarusian-Latvian) Project, which embraces all who trace their ancestry back to the Rzeczpospolita, the Polish-Lithuanian Republic of the Renaissance:

- Upload your DNA results semi-automatically into the public Ysearch database for use by researchers (you can set your name to 'Name Withheld' if you wish)

- Order additional tests to distinguish nearer from more distant relatives.

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Thank you, lgmayka for the great reply. I do agree that all debates around so called Aryans produce more speculations than facts. Even though the archeological and other data surfaces time by time, it can be interpreted in different ways.
Yes, I have uploaded my 12 markers results into the Ysearch database, run search to find the full 12 marker matches. The result has been really amazing. The majority of full matches originate from British Isles, mostly Scotland and Ireland. As well, one Belarusian with Jewish roots (based on the pedigree), Norwegian, who traces 9 generations back and Lithuanian with Irish roots (as per pedigree) provided the full 12 markers match. Quite surprising.
As to the Polish project, I agree, it might be useful. You have mentioned “additional tests to distinguish nearer from more distant relatives”. There are numerous tests offered. Does it make sense to proceed with 25 or 37 markers tests? I believe finding 25 or 37 markers matches will narrow down the search and provide better indication of your ancestors.

Ontario, Canada

[Stevo]

By the way, all you R1a men, the link for the new R Forum has changed. You will find it here now.

I hope you will all join us.

Although we have a few R1a threads, we could always use more.

Come on down!

[lgmayka]

You have mentioned “additional tests to distinguish nearer from more distant relatives”. There are numerous tests offered. Does it make sense to proceed with 25 or 37 markers tests? I believe finding 25 or 37 markers matches will narrow down the search and provide better indication of your ancestors.

Yes, exactly. Getting up to 37 markers will winnow out the coincidental matches, especially those from the British Isles (which are so heavily overrepresented in databases that, at 12 markers, their coincidental matches due to random fluctuation can obscure more meaningful connections).

Of course, if you can afford it, just go the whole 'nine yards' and order the full 67-marker upgrade.

[sitw]

Of course, if you can afford it, just go the whole 'nine yards' and order the full 67-marker upgrade. [/QUOTE]

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Thank you. Just one technical question. Can I proceed with the full marker upgrade without submitting the sample again? I've already done it via National Geographic project and it is supposed to be available at Family Tree, if I am not mistaken. One more thing. What is the difference between 1Ra and 1Ra1? My haplogroup, as defined by National Geographic is 1Ra1 and I am curious what the difference is.
I have joined the Polish project and will definitely proceed with the full scale upgrade even though I neved heard of 67 markers possibility. Thanks for the welcome message.

[lgmayka]

Can I proceed with the full marker upgrade without submitting the sample again?
...
What is the difference between 1Ra and 1Ra1?

Yes, FTDNA has retained your sample (actually, both of the test tubes) and will reuse it/them as necessary. FTDNA is actually the testing company employed by the Genographic Project.

R1a1 is a slightly finer level of classification than R1a:

http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

The difference is minor because the only R1a that is not R1a1 is 'R1a*', which is extremely rare, at least in European populations. Sometimes these extremely rare varieties turn out to be merely lab errors!

[Stevo]

R1a Input Needed and Wanted

All you R1a guys,

Please come vote in this poll. You'll have to register for the forum first, but please do so.

We need and want your input.

[kushash]

The major Haplogroups of India like, R1a1, L*, H* have ages greater than Holocene(around 80% of the population and that's the reason you find tribals with these Haplogroups but not say, Haplogroup J2* which is a later addition). As you might be knowing civilization started around Holocene or 11000 years ago. If that won't give Indian caste population just Indian origins instead of Indo-European origins then I would like to have only African identity and nothing else.

As the time passes you would like to appreciate not only European contribution to Hinduism but also the Semitic. You would take pride in the fact that Indians appropriated European and Semitic stories for their homegrown religious cults and deities whose primitivity and complexity has stood the test of the time at least for 65% of the population. Then there is caste system. Hmmmm... I suppose that's okay. Isn't Hitler the biggest enemy of Europeans considering the number of people who died during WWII?

Anyway, Since R1a1 is predominant around North-West of India and also in Eastern Europe, you would expect multiple back and forth migrations for this people. By the way, North Indian upper castes have R1a1 around 45% but South Indian upper castes have around 28% showing historical migrations/invasions shaping up North Indian upper-caste population to a certain extent. And I suppose H* is predominant in Central India(Also, the Romas show haplogroup H in high frequency) and L* in South India.

May be you would also like to see a report from Genographic project:

http://www-03.ibm.com/industries/healthcare/doc/content/landing/1323061105.html

Check out the age of R1a in that report.

It is not possible to find out the specific age of haplotype at the moment (approximately in thousands)

The fact is that R1a as well as its precedessor R, both originated in India, specifically south India. South India may ahve lseesr R1A overall ~28%, but that is just the point. The south Indian tribes are amongst the most ancient (outside africa). The tribes with R1a were more successful in spreading into north, from where it was carried into Europe during bronze and iron ages. No wonder north wsetern india which had a large influx from south india has high variance of R1a1

Regarding contribution of europe and semitic to hinduism , it is the other way around. Many of the deities of western world have originated in India (remeber Mithra, Isis, Mot etc. etc.)

[Stevo]

The idea that R originated in India is one theory, not established fact. I believe that is Sengupta's theory.

The general consensus is that R originated on the Eurasian steppe.

[kushash]

You mean appearance?


Quote:
Again, a bad conclusion, as bad as your theories. I am South Indian and speak Dravidian.
]

This brings out your true color.. There is no language called dravidian...You are not an Indian and your only aim is to slander india, indians, hinduism etc...

Actually you are an as*****?

[Stevo]

The idea that R originated in India is one theory, not established fact. I believe that is Sengupta's theory.

The general consensus is that R originated on the Eurasian steppe.

By the way, it wouldn't trouble me at all if R did originate in India; it's an interesting theory.

I would be glad to discuss it here.