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  • What Tests Should I Take Now?

    Greetings,

    I wanted to get opinions on what other tests I should have done. I am a male. Here is what I have so far:

    Genographic 2.0 (just this week, no results yet)
    Y-DNA 67markers
    Family Finder
    MtDNA (only the basic first stage test offered and I have ZERO MATCHES)

    So, basically I was wanting to know how much "gaps" the Genographic Project will fill in and what other FTDNA tests I should still take. For example would it be worth upgrading to 111 YDNA markers? Am I correct in assuming that the deep clade is obsolete given that I am testing with 2.0? What other if any mtdna tests should I consider etc...

    Regards

  • #2
    I'd wait till your Geno 2.0 results are all in, then you might want to order additional Y SNPs that aren't part of TGP.

    If you've got money burning a whole in your wallet, I would start thinking about testing near relatives (e.g. parents, uncles, first cousins, etc.) if you can, since you've almost maxed out the useful testing you can do on yourself. You might want to test a maternal uncle's Y, a maternal aunt's Family Finder, your father's mtDNA, etc. They're all part of your ancestry, plus the more relatives you test, the more of your family's DNA Family Tree has stored: if you can afford it, you might be able to add tests on later to those kits.

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    • #3
      Your Geno 2.0 will give you a subclade to your HVR 1 and, if all your FTDNA tests are under your name, you can transfer your Geno mtDNA subclade information to your FTDNA page along with your Y SNP's. It is unclear, at present, if FTDNA will do any matching to Geno mtDNA markers.

      If you care to go further with your personal mtDNA testing you might as well go all the way with the Mega or FMS mtDNA test, that will give you HVR 2 and all the Coding Region markers Geno did not test for. MtDNA is not very useful for genealogy unless your FMS harbors a very rare marker but should prove informative regarding your maternal line ancestry and origin. FTDNA does, however, offer matching on FMS to the FTDNA database.

      You might also consider testing with 23&Me and/or AncestryDNA for the sake of getting on other autosomal matching databases. Gedmatch will accept your FF file for inclusion on their site. The Gedmatch database is much smaller than any of the commercial sites but it hosts both FF and 23&Me data (those 23&Me users who have not effected a transfer of 23&Me v3 data to FTDNA's Family Finder).
      Last edited by tomcat; 26 January 2013, 01:12 PM.

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      • #4
        Yes, Geno 2.0 is expected to obsolete the already out-of-date Deep Clade test but Geno 2.0 was designed around last year's Y tree so Geno Y results will not reflect more recent discoveries in your Y clade, if any.

        Geno 2.0 only tests SNP's and your Y SNP's are important for deep ancestry and your placement on the Y tree. If being up-to-date in those dimensions is important to you, you can test available Y SNP's that are downstream from the terminal SNP given by your Geno 2.0 results.

        If, however, recent or genealogical relevance is important, you could upgrade to 111 Y STR's. You may be ahead of the pack given the limited number of Y-111 results in the FTDNA database, but if you are involved in an FTDNA Project that has 111 profiles, your upgrade could be immediately useful. Your Project Admin may also be able to infer your terminal SNP from your Y-111, and if inference is acceptable to you, a Y-111 upgrade would obviate the need to test downstream SNP's.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by tomcat View Post
          Geno 2.0 is expected to obsolete the already out-of-date Deep Clade test
          My problem with this is that while FTDNA tell their new customers that DNA samples are stored 25 years and that upgrades based on those samples can be purchased, they are now offering as a replacement of the Deep Clade test a test that requires new swabs.

          So for customers who decided to test with FTDNA so DNA samples would only have to be provided once, FTDNA has basically obsoleted the DP without offering an alternative.

          So I would like to hear a statement from FTDNA, that they will offer Geno 2.0 (under a different name, if they like) as a standard upgrade, without the need for additional swabbing.

          Comment


          • #6
            I believe Deep Clade is still available and can be run on stored samples. What is needed for those with legacy samples is Deep Clade 2 and/or follow-on packages of Y SNP's specifically selected for specific Y clades.

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            • #7
              They've pulled Deep Clade as of a few days ago -- if you go to your Haplotree page, the option to upgrade is no longer there.

              Comment


              • #8
                Deep Clade

                The only places I've seen that say the Deep Clade test is toast are the message boards. Thanks Tomcat.
                If somebody can point out where on the web site it officially says Deep Clade is no longer available, please point it out.
                Also, I've seen rumours that the snp test has gone up in price. Since I'm in the middle of a Deep Clade test, they locked me out of the snp ordering section prices. Anybody know?
                L21- so far, Joe

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by D.Clade View Post
                  The only places I've seen that say the Deep Clade test is toast are the message boards. Thanks Tomcat.
                  If somebody can point out where on the web site it officially says Deep Clade is no longer available, please point it out.
                  Last Friday, all group admins got the following email:

                  Exciting new developments at Family Tree DNA:

                  As you are probably aware, Family Tree DNA was a leading contributor in the design of both the mtDNA and Y-chromosome development of the National Geographic Society’s Genographic 2.0. This project was intended to cause a paradigm shift in the Y-tree of mankind. As we continue to discover SNPs, new terminal branches are being assigned every week. In other words, the discovery project has been highly successful.

                  The Genographic 2.0 test can investigate almost 12,000 Y SNPs! For this reason, we are no longer offering the Deep Clade test. Instead, we have created a link that will allow people to order the Genographic 2.0 test, whose Y SNP results can be transferred back to Family Tree DNA.

                  Specific positioning on the Y tree will be available in February from both the Genographic Project and Family Tree DNA.

                  As a result of Genographic 2.0, the number of new individual SNPs available for order at Family Tree DNA is continuing to multiply. At your request, we will continue to make new SNPs found on the Genographic chip available to you as single SNPs. Meanwhile, as the number of SNPs increases, so do the number of primers that we need to maintain. What began as dozens became hundreds and now it's almost 2000. In 2013, we're expecting this number to grow to between 3000-4000! We want to maintain the high standard of service that Family Tree DNA has always delivered, but with this number of primers, it has become a full-time job. We're anticipating a larger number of orders of individual SNPs and less volume per SNP. This will lead to an increase in the cost of maintaining the single marker system. Therefore, effective immediately, the price for individual SNPs will increase to $39 to allow us to manage the individual SNP program at Family Tree DNA. The alternative is for us to discontinue individual SNP testing and to just suggest the National Geographic product, which we think would unreasonably increase costs to individuals seeking their placement on the tree.

                  We continue to look forward to your continued support and cooperation.

                  Family Tree DNA
                  www.familytreedna.com
                  "History Unearthed Daily"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank You

                    Hey Javelin,
                    Thank you for the real scoop on what is going on.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Javelin View Post
                      "we are no longer offering the Deep Clade test. Instead, we have created a link that will allow people to order the Genographic 2.0 test"
                      The above non-solution is exactly the problem:

                      The option to upgrade to Deep Clade is now gone and instead there is no new upgrade option, only the option to purchase a new test that requires a new DNA sample.

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                      • #12
                        You still have the option of testing a stored or legacy sample for individual SNP's, but the selection of appropriate SNP's depends on the promised Y tree ... and an acceptance of that Y as definitive for the Y clade being tested.

                        I have reservations about the second part as the promised Y tree is based on the very limited sampling of The Genographic Project, to date.

                        Even that limited sampling has resulted in the restructuring of some Y haplogroups. If TGP 2.0 eventually attracts the same number of testers as TGP 1.0, further restructuring is likely, but we will have to wait for TGP 3.0 (or seven years given TGP historical performance) to determine whether interim testing of individual Y SNP's was productive.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tomcat View Post
                          You still have the option of testing a stored or legacy sample for individual SNP's
                          The Deep Clade test can for 139$ determine up to a few dozen SNPs.

                          With the Geno 2.0 some get several hundred SNPs.

                          So I don't think testing for individual SNPs (at 39$ a piece) can be considered a reasonable alternative.

                          Please understand:

                          I am basically begging FTDNA to let me spend 199$ (for each of several kits I administrate) on the Geno 2.0 test - I just cannot provide more DNA samples.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lklundin View Post
                            I am basically begging FTDNA to let me spend 199$ (for each of several kits I administrate) on the Geno 2.0 test - I just cannot provide more DNA samples.
                            Unfortunately, it is not up to FTDNA to allow you to use their stored samples to test the Geno 2.0. This is up to NGS (National Geographic Society).

                            At the FTDNA Administrators Conference last November, Bennett Greenspan stated they will be working with NGS on allowing FTDNA to use DNA already in their storage to test the Geno 2.0, but due to the already "full plate" NGS has in rolling out this new product and fixing the inevitable bugs, even at that time Bennett stated he didn't think it would happen until this Spring.

                            I personally wouldn't be surprised if this option gets pushed back into summer, given the fact NGS has not even published a haplotree (which was promised "shortly" after the 2.0 results became available). It is clear NGS is still scrambling with issues, and isn't ready to add more to their plate, even though this should be a "no brainer".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lklundin View Post
                              The Deep Clade test can for 139$ determine up to a few dozen SNPs.

                              With the Geno 2.0 some get several hundred SNPs.

                              So I don't think testing for individual SNPs (at 39$ a piece) can be considered a reasonable alternative.

                              Please understand:

                              I am basically begging FTDNA to let me spend 199$ (for each of several kits I administrate) on the Geno 2.0 test - I just cannot provide more DNA samples.
                              I understand your situation but an alternative is available at a reasonable cost according to FTDNA:

                              "Therefore, effective immediately, the price for individual SNPs will increase to $39 to allow us to manage the individual SNP program at Family Tree DNA. The alternative is for us to discontinue individual SNP testing and to just suggest the National Geographic product, which we think would unreasonably increase costs to individuals seeking their placement on the tree."

                              That means the anticipated cost of a relevant basket of Y SNP's must be less than the cost of Geno 2.0. The only missing piece of information is the revised Y tree to guide your selection of individual Y SNP's from the Genochip.

                              I also think FTDNA should outline an individual Y SNP testing program on everyone's Y page, specific to their Y clade and tailored to the testing they have had performed to date.
                              Last edited by tomcat; 29 January 2013, 09:52 AM.

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