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Comparing four admixture estimates

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  • Comparing four admixture estimates

    http://www.yourgeneticgenealogist.co...ts-across.html

  • #2
    Thanks for posting tomcat. That is a very clear and concise breakdown between all the companies from CeCe. I found her assessments to be very fair to provide information for people to decide which company they might want to try if they are interested in admixture.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've tested with all but Ancestry, and I think it's important to remember that updates can change things fast. FTDNA supposedly has a FF/PF update coming out around January, and GENO2.0 is just getting off the ground. 23's customers have waited a LONG time for AC, and I still can't get my real BGA there because they used my sample to develop it. So while I found CeCe's blog informative, I think it's important to look at the strengths - and weaknesses - of each testing service in light of individual testing needs and wants.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by vinnie View Post
        I've tested with all but Ancestry, and I think it's important to remember that updates can change things fast. FTDNA supposedly has a FF/PF update coming out around January, and GENO2.0 is just getting off the ground. 23's customers have waited a LONG time for AC, and I still can't get my real BGA there because they used my sample to develop it. So while I found CeCe's blog informative, I think it's important to look at the strengths - and weaknesses - of each testing service in light of individual testing needs and wants.
        Thanks for posting Tomcat.
        Vinnie, I agree that it is important to remember that things can and do change fast. That is why my conclusion included, "So, don't count any of them out quite yet. In a short time, my opinions regarding the 'best of' may have completely changed again!" You're right that 23andMe's customers waited a long time for the new AC, but regardless of its tardiness or shortcomings, it is here now. When FTDNA gets their update out, I'm sure it will be competitive. 23andMe has a bit of a head start though and will continue to refine and improve their offering, so the competition will be fierce.
        This was intended as a review/comparison of my personal results only. I realize and acknowledged in the post that others may have different experiences, specifically with PopFinder. I look forward to reading about their opinions. (I think Roberta is planning to do a similar review with her admixture results as soon as she receives her Geno 2.0 results back.) 23andMe definitely has to address the reference sample customer issue (and they are working on it as we speak) before everyone can benefit from the feature on equal footing.
        Last edited by cecemoore; 18 December 2012, 06:42 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Cece, yes, you gave a "fair and balanced" assessment as always, and I look forward to your posts. I've introduced DNA testing to a lot of people in the last few years, and it's getting more difficult to advise them because of the overlap between companies. Obviously, FTDNA is still tops when it comes to y-STR testing, so for my friends and family who want that info, there's no question who they should test with.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vinnie View Post
            Hi Cece, yes, you gave a "fair and balanced" assessment as always, and I look forward to your posts. I've introduced DNA testing to a lot of people in the last few years, and it's getting more difficult to advise them because of the overlap between companies. Obviously, FTDNA is still tops when it comes to y-STR testing, so for my friends and family who want that info, there's no question who they should test with.
            Thanks, Vinnie! I agree completely. I was having a lot of trouble recommending one atDNA test over another, but with the new price at 23andMe, it is a bit of a no-brainer now since they can transfer here for only $89 and be in both databases for less than the FF sale price. However, for Y-STR testing, I would never recommend an other company! There is simply no comparison!! As I said in my blog post, I wouldn't count FTDNA out. They always find a way of excelling and their Geno 2.0 work, extensive SNP testing and lab is unparalleled. I'm sure they will pull something out of their sleeve. I have complete confidence in them.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cecemoore View Post
              Thanks, Vinnie! I agree completely. I was having a lot of trouble recommending one atDNA test over another, but with the new price at 23andMe, it is a bit of a no-brainer now since they can transfer here for only $89 and be in both databases for less than the FF sale price. However, for Y-STR testing, I would never recommend an other company! There is simply no comparison!! As I said in my blog post, I wouldn't count FTDNA out. They always find a way of excelling and their Geno 2.0 work, extensive SNP testing and lab is unparalleled. I'm sure they will pull something out of their sleeve. I have complete confidence in them.
              I am curious to know if you have done the free Gedmatch AuDNA tests, i.e. eurogenes, MDLP, dodecad etc, and see how they compare to your findings.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bartot View Post
                I am curious to know if you have done the free Gedmatch AuDNA tests, i.e. eurogenes, MDLP, dodecad etc, and see how they compare to your findings.
                Hi Bartot - I have. I just wanted to concentrate on the commercial offerings for that post. In the comment section, I posted Dr. McDonald's analysis. I have played around with the others, but never felt like I got that much out of them. My Gedmatch ID is M130630 if you want to check it out. I'm happy to discuss.
                CeCe

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cecemoore View Post
                  Hi Bartot - I have. I just wanted to concentrate on the commercial offerings for that post. In the comment section, I posted Dr. McDonald's analysis. I have played around with the others, but never felt like I got that much out of them. My Gedmatch ID is M130630 if you want to check it out. I'm happy to discuss.
                  CeCe
                  Hi Cece

                  I find the eurogenes ( and some others ) to be accurate to a point and IIRC your finnish is represented, see below

                  Using 3 populations approximation:
                  1 50% IE +25% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% South_Finnish @ 2.797
                  2 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% Cornish +25% North_Swedish @ 2.826

                  Using 4 populations approximation:
                  1 Cornish + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_Finnish @ 2.724
                  2 Cornish + IE + NO + South_Finnish @ 2.767
                  3 IE + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_Finnish @ 2.797

                  Problem with finnish marker for these tests as I read, is that is it a bottleneck area, that's what I was told when investigating my MtDna ( west-Finnish Kvens ) ( but I was also told it could be french-basque). I am still investigating this terminology and what it means for finns.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bartot View Post
                    Hi Cece

                    I find the eurogenes ( and some others ) to be accurate to a point and IIRC your finnish is represented, see below

                    Using 3 populations approximation:
                    1 50% IE +25% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% South_Finnish @ 2.797
                    2 50% South_&_Central_Swedish +25% Cornish +25% North_Swedish @ 2.826

                    Using 4 populations approximation:
                    1 Cornish + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_Finnish @ 2.724
                    2 Cornish + IE + NO + South_Finnish @ 2.767
                    3 IE + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish + South_Finnish @ 2.797

                    Problem with finnish marker for these tests as I read, is that is it a bottleneck area, that's what I was told when investigating my MtDna ( west-Finnish Kvens ) ( but I was also told it could be french-basque). I am still investigating this terminology and what it means for finns.
                    Interesting, thanks for taking the time to run it.
                    I don't have any known Swedish and the only Swedish matches on my various lists have Finnish ancestry, so I wonder if those reference samples are Swedes with substantial Finnish ancestry. I do, however, have about 12.5% Norwegian, so perhaps that is a partial explanation. I have seen how Finnish ancestry clusters on PCA plots and it is very distinct from other populations, so I'm not sure why it appears to be such a challenge to detect. I was very pleased to see it picked up so readily and close to the expected percentages by 23andMe. This held true for all of my many relatives in the system.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cecemoore View Post
                      Interesting, thanks for taking the time to run it.
                      I don't have any known Swedish and the only Swedish matches on my various lists have Finnish ancestry, so I wonder if those reference samples are Swedes with substantial Finnish ancestry. I do, however, have about 12.5% Norwegian, so perhaps that is a partial explanation. I have seen how Finnish ancestry clusters on PCA plots and it is very distinct from other populations, so I'm not sure why it appears to be such a challenge to detect. I was very pleased to see it picked up so readily and close to the expected percentages by 23andMe. This held true for all of my many relatives in the system.
                      from about 1380 and the next 400 years, finland was governed by Sweden, beginning with the kalmar Union and continuing into the period of the Swedish empire.
                      It is not hard to visialize that your ancestors could be originally swedish and that they migrated to Finland for work or where given lands to rule or farm and then over time became Finns .

                      Kalmar Union was Denmark, Sweden and Norway, but sweden ruled Finland at this time

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bartot View Post
                        from about 1380 and the next 400 years, finland was governed by Sweden, beginning with the kalmar Union and continuing into the period of the Swedish empire.
                        It is not hard to visialize that your ancestors could be originally swedish and that they migrated to Finland for work or where given lands to rule or farm and then over time became Finns .

                        Kalmar Union was Denmark, Sweden and Norway, but sweden ruled Finland at this time
                        I am very familiar with Finnish history, so I realize the possibility that my ancestors *could* have been Swedish way back, but considering that my mother comes out as almost 50% Finnish on 23andMe's Ancestry Composition and clearly clusters with The Finns on the Fennoscandia Project, I don't think that is the case.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another comparison

                          A link to a posting containing a link to an Excel file comparing FTDNA's FF, 23&Me, AncestryDNA and Geno2.0:

                          http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-12/1356348495

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by cecemoore View Post
                            I am very familiar with Finnish history, so I realize the possibility that my ancestors *could* have been Swedish way back, but considering that my mother comes out as almost 50% Finnish on 23andMe's Ancestry Composition and clearly clusters with The Finns on the Fennoscandia Project, I don't think that is the case.
                            Fennoscandia historical means finland and sweden ( the gulf of bothnia peoples ) Ostrobothnia and ostenbotten lands for Finland. They where far greater lands in the middle-ages than what is currently now, it was basically the wild-west of Finland inhabited by Finns and migrating swedes and Karelians ( modern russians now ).

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrobo...al_province%29

                            I suggest you check out swedish archives.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just got my 23andMe results back so I thought I would share my 4 result comparisons. Heres what I know of my recent ancestry based on the last 6 – 7 generations of ancestors. 80% British Isles, 12% Danish, 8% unknown brickwalls

                              I also read a few threads that said not to fill out any ancestry information before the test because it will skews the results. So I did not fill out the survey. Now I can fill it out and see if it changes anything.

                              23andMe’s Ancestry Composition
                              My results came back 100% Northern European. My Speculative breaks down to
                              93.9% Northern European
                              ____41.1% British and Irish
                              ____12.1% French and German
                              ____6.7% Scandinavian
                              ____33.1% Nonspecific Northern European
                              3.6% Southern European
                              ____1.0% Italian
                              ____0.7% Iberian
                              ____2.0% Nonspecific Southern European
                              0.4% Eastern European
                              2.0% Nonspecific European

                              I like the chromosome view, it shows you the breakdown of each chromosome.
                              90% of my X chromosome shows Scandinavian so that’s definitely my grandmother’s Danish heritage.

                              23andMe gave me 2.6% Neanderthal
                              Geno 2 gave me 1.9% Neanderthal and 1.9% Dinosovan

                              Geno 2.0
                              45% Northern European
                              35% Mediterranean
                              17% Southwest Asian
                              2% Northeast Asian

                              FTDNA’s Population Finder
                              87.14% Western European
                              12.86% Europe

                              Ancestry DNA
                              58% British Isles
                              20% Central European
                              10% Southern European
                              5% Uncertain

                              Just a guess looking at all the results I would say that
                              FTDNA’s Population Finder is the most recent ancestry.
                              23andMe and AncestryDNA look more mid range.
                              And Geno is definitely more deep ancestry.

                              Comment

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