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Has FT-DNA bitten off more than they can chew with Nat Geno 2.0 SNP results?

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  • #16
    I couldnt find anything on the web about Z6 and I didnt doubt you.
    If Z6 is 1600 ybp and with the names that were in the previous post it looks as if the oirigin was in England during Roman times.If 2300 is the TMRCA then it originated in England before the Romans.The one thing that you are sure of is that your private SNP originated there.
    I understand now when you said it wasnt safe to put an average timeframe to an SNP.There must be at least 1000 years between Z6 and the private one. The SNP that I belong to must be some age as it seven upstream from Z6.

    Originally posted by Wing_Genealogis View Post
    ISOGG has developed some criteria which must be met for them to consider a SNP "Public" (rather than a private/family SNP). You can see these criteria at their website: http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_SNP_Requirements.html

    Z6 has met all of their criteria and they have placed it on their R Haplogroup tree http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

    Because it is currently a small haplogroup, the TMRCA estimates are still very rough. The best estimate to date is roughly between 1600-2300 years ago.

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    • #17
      Besides the four individuals (thus far) found to be Z6+ through FT-DNA, there were two individuals in the 1000 Genome project who also had this SNP (and it was "amateur" genetic-genealogists scouring through the 1K Genome who brought the SNP to light). These original two individuals were from the county of Kent, England.

      The ancestral location for the Wing family was presumably the Manor of Wing in Buckinghamshire, England and the Howland family can be traced back to Fenstanton, Huntingdonshire (with the possibility of them being earlier at Ely, Cambridgeshire).

      The People of the British Isles (PoBI) Project has released preliminary results showing where a large portion of Southeast England have a strong, distinct, regional affiliation, which many believe to be a signal of the Anglo-Saxon invasion in England. All of the known Z6+ results fall into this region of England, so it would be logical to presume the Z6 SNP was likely Anglo-Saxon.

      Even if the Z6 SNP pre-dated the A-S invasion, it is always possible the only direct-line male descendants living today were all of English parentage. It must be remembered that (over time) the vast majority of paternal lines die out, and the lines remaining today are the lucky few winners.

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      • #18
        I created a simple 24 marker modal for Z156 (FUZKX )at ysearch.It is picking up some Z156 men. It is also picking up a few L48 and Z18.There are a lot of possible candidates in the Isles and because it is an old SNP it could have originated here.The highest diversity is said to be among Irish testers. I hope that by taking the Geno 2.0 test that I will be able to find a few new SNPs and I will tell you the results.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
          ....There are a lot of possible candidates in the Isles and because it is an old SNP it could have originated here.The highest diversity is said to be among Irish testers....
          It must be kept in mind the vast majority of people undergoing DNA testing through FT-DNA are of British Isles descent. While I have not seen any figures, it would not surprise me if it is as high as 8 out of every 10 people testing (and possibly even higher).

          There has been a lot of recent discussion regarding the Wettin Royal line belonging to Z306 (which falls under Z156). This Wettin line includes Prince Albert (husband of Queen Victoria) and all of their male descendants as well as some other European royal families. The direct male line can be traced back to Europe in the Dark Ages, around the time of the collapse of the Roman Empire.

          Thus it is known Z306 has its origins on the Continent (rather than the British Isles) and consequently, it's parent, Z156, surely has a Continental origin as well.

          As an aside, if you have not already done so, you probably would want to join the U106/S21 Yahoogroup at:
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b1c_U106-S21/

          In addition, you may want to join the R1b-U106 Y-DNA Research Group

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          • #20
            I read some posts at U106 at yahoo recently.Can two people with the same name and same haplotype not be related recently?Is the SNP unreliable in their case?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              I read some posts at U106 at yahoo recently.Can two people with the same name and same haplotype not be related recently?Is the SNP unreliable in their case?
              Haplotype refers to STRs, not SNPs. The discussion at the Yahoogroup concerned how reliable a very close match at 67 markers is to establish that two men share a recent common paternal line ancestor.

              It was pointed out that a close match on STRs indicates a very high probability of a recent common paternal line ancestor, but not certainty. The point was also made by several people that if two men match on SNPs, then they are definitely related although the common paternal line ancestor may be hundreds or a few thousand years ago.

              So, SNPs=certainty while STRs= probability.

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              • #22
                Z18+

                I was reading these posts about subclades below R1bU106. I just tested positive for Z18 snp, and Z14 snp test is in progress. I believe I am getting closer to nailing down real haplogroup.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Wing_Genealogis View Post
                  FT-DNA has gone on record stating they will allow folks who have taken the Nat Geno 2.0 test to transfer their positive/derived SNPs to their FT-DNA account. While I would love for this to happen, I wonder if they fully realize the potential results of this.
                  They are going to move to a model where terminal SNPs are used rather than letters/numbers, but even that has issues, for example, L176 which occurs in P312, SRY2627, and R1a1a1, making "R-L176" too ambiguous to use.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mylineage View Post
                    I was reading these posts about subclades below R1bU106. I just tested positive for Z18 snp, and Z14 snp test is in progress. I believe I am getting closer to nailing down real haplogroup.
                    If you haven't already, please join the U106 Project:

                    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/U106/default.aspx

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Javelin View Post
                      They are going to move to a model where terminal SNPs are used rather than letters/numbers, but even that has issues, for example, L176 which occurs in P312, SRY2627, and R1a1a1, making "R-L176" too ambiguous to use.
                      It's designated as L176.1 for R1a and L176.2 for R1b.

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