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Cuckolded Fathers Rare in Human Populations.

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  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
    In my case (above), I found a marriage record online that shows my maternal grandparents married when she was 6 months pregnant. I assume hat record is correct, as seen at Ancestry. Anyway, it took place down in Rockford, Illinois. I mean they lived in Madison, Wisconsin. So it was probably a civil marriage. And it obviously was not in the Catholic church. So the Catholic relatives on his side would have regarded my mother as a bastard, I suppose. My family tree, based mostly on the Ancestry database, is quite full except for my maternal grandfather's branch. Also lacking proof is my direct maternal line prior to 1800 in early USA/colonies.
    Well, I've finally come to the conclusion that John Schrotz (born in Austria) was not the biological father of my mother. Accepting that makes more sense out of My Origins at FTDNA. But I'll never know who her real biological father was. It was sure good of John Schrotz to have married her mother when she was 6 months pregnant, as per marriage record at Ancestry. Now those matches at Ancestry and FTDNA who are Italian, French-Canadian > Cajun French, and Spanish seem more likely to connect to that mysterious man, or at least some of them. It looks like a New Orleans geographic focus. Since my mother was born in March 1918, that means that romance happened during the summer of 1917 during WWI.
    Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 20 October 2017, 11:07 AM.

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  • dtvmcdonald
    replied
    In the >2000 men Clan Donald project we have numerous paper trail lines, an even more surnamed lines, that go back to
    the year 1150. The number of previously unsuspected NPEs is zero. The number of previously suspected ones among the gentry or aristocracy is one. All this of course excludes
    VERY close McDonald relatives.


    There are plenty of previously known or strongly suspected ones among commoners confirmed by DNA.

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  • Wheal
    replied
    Originally posted by rmm0484 View Post
    The authors appear to have lived in a different century.
    There are other reasons for non-parental events (NPE) aside from cukoldry; (a) men knowingly married pregnant girls who were "in trouble" to give them "a good name;" (b) adoption, (c) incest.

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  • rmm0484
    replied
    Originally posted by Frederator View Post
    The term 'cuckold' may be rather over-used to describe a wide variety of normal situations that have nothing at all to do with marital infidelity, like the assumption of a step-father's surname or an informal adoption.
    The authors appear to have lived in a different century.
    There are other reasons for non-parental events (NPE) aside from cukoldry; (a) men knowingly married pregnant girls who were "in trouble" to give them "a good name;" (b) adoption, (c) incest.

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  • Wheal
    replied
    You have to remember that women were regarded as property in many cultures, so women were shared with no "assigned" mate. Women would also be considered as bounty from raids and kept as slaves. 'She' could have already been impregnated by a mate from her other clan and would bring that DNA into her new clan.

    In addition, women were FREQUENTLY raped and impregnated by not only unrelated men, but by their family members.

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  • spruithean
    replied
    Originally posted by sspeters41 View Post
    Out of wedlock births were a lot more common than most of you see to want to believe. Colonial days were no different. The reason I use Colonial is because I have not been able to go much beyond Colonial. You ain't who you think you are!! I think an unbroken line would be the rare exception that the rule, but then what do I know!!
    I think it depends on how far back we're going here. If we're going to the most distant ancestor you can confirm realistically by paper trail then an unbroken line isn't all that surprising and neither is a broken line. There are undoubtedly NPEs for many people with confirmed paper trails beyond where their paper trail ends.

    There are a number of factors that can result in the perception of there being an NPE. From there actually being an NPE to the family tree not being properly researched.

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  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    In my case (above), I found a marriage record online that shows my maternal grandparents married when she was 6 months pregnant. I assume hat record is correct, as seen at Ancestry. Anyway, it took place down in Rockford, Illinois. I mean they lived in Madison, Wisconsin. So it was probably a civil marriage. And it obviously was not in the Catholic church. So the Catholic relatives on his side would have regarded my mother as a bastard, I suppose. My family tree, based mostly on the Ancestry database, is quite full except for my maternal grandfather's branch. Also lacking proof is my direct maternal line prior to 1800 in early USA/colonies.

    Leave a comment:


  • sspeters41
    replied
    NPE's

    Out of wedlock births were a lot more common than most of you see to want to believe. Colonial days were no different. The reason I use Colonial is because I have not been able to go much beyond Colonial. You ain't who you think you are!! I think an unbroken line would be the rare exception that the rule, but then what do I know!!

    Leave a comment:


  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    Originally posted by loisrp View Post
    Do you have any 2nd or 3rd cousins that are unexplained to lead you to this possible conclusion?
    I was just speculating. My mother was an only child. I mean, I come from a dysfunctional family where we all hated one another. Every time I asked my mother about our family tree she was cross and didn't answer. As for 2nd or 3rd cousins, there is one female line that seems to be related. That line married into Italian(s), at least at one point. Now that side were all Catholics. For some odd reason, my grandmother turned her husband into a Protestant. And that caused him to be treated cooly by his relatives. So I didn't meet them except only in passing. Lots of other things too...

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  • loisrp
    replied
    Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
    Then there is the situation where a guy has been coerced into believing that a baby was his and so he married said devious woman. I'm wondering if that could be a possible scenario with my (doubtful?) maternal grandfather. Quite probably not, but that could explain where my mysterious Italian (7%) came from.
    Do you have any 2nd or 3rd cousins that are unexplained to lead you to this possible conclusion?

    Leave a comment:


  • PDHOTLEN
    replied
    Then there is the situation where a guy has been coerced into believing that a baby was his and so he married said devious woman. I'm wondering if that could be a possible scenario with my (doubtful?) maternal grandfather. Quite probably not, but that could explain where my mysterious Italian (7%) came from.

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  • Slithy Tove
    replied
    Yet again, scientific endeavour exploited my someone trying to present a view not supported by the data...

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  • Amerijoe
    replied
    Cuckolded Fathers Rare in Human Populations.

    What about the perspective viewpoint of the offspring who is verbally and physically reminded of such a union. How rare do you think that is? A cockold husband can be a dangerous menace to the overall viability of such a union to all those involved. To anyone who has experienced such a situation may serenity comfort you always.

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  • ltd-jean-pull
    replied
    Originally posted by Dabney Carr View Post
    I'll agree with that. Cuckoldry is far more widespread in recent times due to contraception giving women the ability to sleep around from a relatively early age without the consequences of getting pregnant. Then later if they get married, they don't have the same attachment and fidelity to their husbands when compared to women in the past who were more likely to be virgin brides and tended to be faithful to their husbands.
    I'm intrigued. What is your definition of "sleeping around"?

    Were the men also "sleeping around" or were boys just being boys?

    Apparently these days married couples don't only have sex for procreation and may use contraception!

    Wouldn't the availability of contraception to married women reduce the likelihood of a pregnancy result from having sex with someone who isn't your recognised partner?

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  • Biblioteque
    replied
    And, in some cases, coercive persuasion.........
    Last edited by Biblioteque; 3 August 2017, 04:23 AM.

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