Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Large Y descent clusters

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • PNGarrison
    replied
    "A few of the R1b male lines in Ireland are close but the majority aren't. I don't believe in the one man and 40 wifes theory. It didn't happen for a well known King Henry.He had no son's."

    It certainly wasn't the norm. I didn't mean too close - just the same large tribe. The population geneticists have found that up until the Neolithic (roughly) the effective population size for men was much less than for women. A simple way to interpret that is that the strong, fast, mighty hunter types were getting way more than their share of the women. About 10,000 years ago the ratio goes to near 1, suggesting that with farming came monogamy, at least on average. But it's clear that there were exceptions in big kings with big harems. The point of the OT telling us that Solomon had 300 wives and 1000 concubines was to say that he was the greatest king of all, like an American saying Babe Ruth hit a million home runs.

    Over some broad areas of Asia it has been estimated that 3% of the men are in that descent cluster that may well be Genghis Khan's. As time went on harem gathering and a ton of children faded away, but here and there it probably happened. I don't know what the anthropologists have found that would be relevant to Bronze Age patterns in Europe. There certainly were some kings/chieftains that could have supported a lot of wives/children and they had no belief system that I know of that would have prohibited it. Islam probably kept the practice alive in some places in the Middle East later on by giving it religious sanction.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by PNGarrison View Post
    Well I have noticed that women think they have deep intuitive insights, but in the cases who don't have SNP typing available to them, I doubt that this extends to picking what Y SNP type to mate with.

    The high percentages of P312 and M222 certainly indicate an influx of fairly closed related males and probably the high numerical success of some dominant males before St. Patrick frowned on polygamy. It'll will be interesting to see the results of the Irish project.
    In western Europe the women seem to like having kids with men who are R1b.

    A few of the R1b male lines in Ireland are close but the majority aren't. I don't believe in the one man and 40 wifes theory. It didn't happen for a well known King Henry.He had no son's.

    Leave a comment:


  • PNGarrison
    replied
    Well I have noticed that women think they have deep intuitive insights, but in the cases who don't have SNP typing available to them, I doubt that this extends to picking what Y SNP type to mate with.

    The high percentages of P312 and M222 certainly indicate an influx of fairly closed related males and probably the high numerical success of some dominant males before St. Patrick frowned on polygamy. It'll will be interesting to see the results of the Irish project.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by PNGarrison View Post
    What does the TMRCA calculation look like for M222? If it is fairly young, that might account for low variation in the haplotypes. If that doesn't it might be an interesting point if the microsatellite mutation rate is lower in that population than others. The U106 admins who look at a lot of haplotypes say that they see lineages that seem unusually stable and unusually unstable. I think they should communicate with the researchers who study microsatellite mutation. It might be that these are within the range of known variation or it could be something new.
    The lack of diversity among the haplotypes of the M222 males in NW Ireland shows that this is a homogeneous population. Isn't that right?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    You don't understand what I wrote. A woman always decides who is going to be the father of her children.
    Wikipedia
    "The adaptation of sperm traits, such as length, viability and velocity might be constrained by the influence of cytoplasmic DNA (e.g. mitochondrial DNA);[40] mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother only and it is thought that this could represent a constraint in the evolution of sperm."

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by dna View Post
    I think 1798 meant precisely that word...

    Although, there was no smiley

    And no context.

    Ultimately, it was neither funny, nor meaningful for a post in the Scientific Papers sub-forum.

    W. (Mr.)
    You don't understand what I wrote. A woman always decides who is going to be the father of her children.
    Last edited by 1798; 21 March 2015, 12:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
    What...the...****?
    I think 1798 meant precisely that word...

    Although, there was no smiley

    And no context.

    Ultimately, it was neither funny, nor meaningful for a post in the Scientific Papers sub-forum.

    W. (Mr.)

    Leave a comment:


  • N21163
    replied
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Ultimately, it is the female who decides which Y haplogroup her son belongs to and is it accidental, coincidental or something else?
    What...the...****?

    Leave a comment:


  • dna
    replied
    Originally posted by rt-sails View Post
    No. The Y chromosome is carried by the male father's sperm and, unlike other chromosomes, doesn't recombine with its partner -- an X within the female mother's egg.
    True, with an exception of the pseudoautosomal regions
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoautosomal_region

    W. (Mr.)

    P.S. No, books on genetics did not need to be rewritten from scratch

    Leave a comment:


  • rt-sails
    replied
    Y chromosome mutations

    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    Can the female have a role in the number of mutations on the Y chromosome?
    No. The Y chromosome is carried by the male father's sperm and, unlike other chromosomes, doesn't recombine with its partner -- an X within the female mother's egg.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Ultimately, it is the female who decides which Y haplogroup her son belongs to and is it accidental, coincidental or something else?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by PNGarrison View Post
    What does the TMRCA calculation look like for M222? If it is fairly young, that might account for low variation in the haplotypes. If that doesn't it might be an interesting point if the microsatellite mutation rate is lower in that population than others. The U106 admins who look at a lot of haplotypes say that they see lineages that seem unusually stable and unusually unstable. I think they should communicate with the researchers who study microsatellite mutation. It might be that these are within the range of known variation or it could be something new.
    The TMRCA for P312 at present is 4,700 ybp and there are 8 SNPs downstream from P312 to M222 then the TMRCA for M222 must be around 3,600. Lots of M222+ testers are a GD of 5 at 67 markers from the modal!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • 1798
    replied
    Originally posted by PNGarrison View Post
    What does the TMRCA calculation look like for M222? If it is fairly young, that might account for low variation in the haplotypes. If that doesn't it might be an interesting point if the microsatellite mutation rate is lower in that population than others. The U106 admins who look at a lot of haplotypes say that they see lineages that seem unusually stable and unusually unstable. I think they should communicate with the researchers who study microsatellite mutation. It might be that these are within the range of known variation or it could be something new.
    Yfull gives a TMRCA of 1,850 for M222 and for the next upstream SNP 4,200. That is not right.

    Leave a comment:


  • PNGarrison
    replied
    What does the TMRCA calculation look like for M222? If it is fairly young, that might account for low variation in the haplotypes. If that doesn't it might be an interesting point if the microsatellite mutation rate is lower in that population than others. The U106 admins who look at a lot of haplotypes say that they see lineages that seem unusually stable and unusually unstable. I think they should communicate with the researchers who study microsatellite mutation. It might be that these are within the range of known variation or it could be something new.

    Leave a comment:


  • PNGarrison
    replied
    I would guess the reason they can get mtDNA results out of Big Y is that the affinity purification that FT uses to get Y fragments isn't perfect and mtDNA is present at such high copy numbers that there is still some there in the sample after the purification.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X