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Ancient genomes in Hungary from different times, Neolithic to Iron Age

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  • #31
    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
    This has been discussed many times. I have no problems with theories if they are backed up with credible evidence.

    SNP counting is not credible evidence.

    You want R1b to be in Europe from 10,000 years ago so you are trying to concoct methods to support your beliefs. This is called a confirmation bias.



    If new information was to come to light that supports R1b being present in Europe earlier than previously thought I am willing to change my position.

    While we are still investigating Ancient DNA, there is currently no evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago.
    You are so wrong. It is not about my beliefs nor yours.

    Comment


    • #32
      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...undary.svg.png

      Here are the SNPs that are one the one level at M269 in the R Y-Tree. I would put my house on these SNPs originating in Europe.


      L483L407L500L478L773L482L265M269CTS12478PF6507PF65 09CTS11468PF6500PF6494PF6495CTS7400CTS7659CTS8591C TS8665PF6265PF6404PF6409PF6411CTS623PF6425PF6430PF 6432PF6434PF6438PF6443CTS2664CTS3575CTS10834s10s3Y SC0000203YSC0000213YSC0000219YSC0000225F1794CTS872 8YSC0000194YSC0000294.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        You are so wrong. It is not about my beliefs nor yours.
        No you cherry-picked and misinterpreted my statement, missing the point of my post.

        The point is SNP counting is not credible evidence.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by N21163 View Post
          No you cherry-picked and misinterpreted my statement, missing the point of my post.

          The point is SNP counting is not credible evidence.
          I don't think that I am right, I know it.You underestimate me.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by N21163 View Post
            No you cherry-picked and misinterpreted my statement, missing the point of my post.

            The point is SNP counting is not credible evidence.
            http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...undary.svg.png
            Why do you think that M269 did not originate in this region?

            Comment


            • #36
              @1798

              Originally posted by 1798 View Post
              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...undary.svg.png
              Why do you think that M269 did not originate in this region?
              The way you had copied the link, it is incomplete...

              W.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by dna View Post
                The way you had copied the link, it is incomplete...

                W.
                The same link is in post 32.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...undary.svg.png
                  Why do you think that M269 did not originate in this region?
                  I don't recall stating anything about the origins of M269 in our recent post exchange.

                  Please identify where I did and I will address your leading question.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                    I don't recall stating anything about the origins of M269 in our recent post exchange.

                    Please identify where I did and I will address your leading question.
                    Which R1b group are you referring to then?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                      Which R1b group are you referring to then?
                      I don't recall stating anything about ANY specific R1b group in our recent post exchange.

                      Please identify where I did make such a statement and I will address the leading question you posted in post 35.

                      If you attempting to infer that I believe M269 did not originate in the region you specified you are mistaken.

                      If you read through post 28 and 30 on this forum, I stated that SNP counting (and your designated average SNP mutation rate) is not credible evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago.

                      Post 28: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...9&postcount=28
                      Post 30: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...5&postcount=30
                      Last edited by N21163; 27th November 2014, 03:58 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                        I don't recall stating anything about ANY specific R1b group in our recent post exchange.

                        Please identify where I did make such a statement and I will address the leading question you posted in post 35.

                        If you attempting to infer that I believe M269 did not originate in the region you specified you are mistaken.

                        If you read through post 28 and 30 on this forum, I stated that SNP counting (and your designated average SNP mutation rate) is not credible evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago.

                        Post 28: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...9&postcount=28
                        Post 30: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...5&postcount=30
                        I was referring to M269 and the 42 other SNPs that are on that level.You are referring to M343 then.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                          I was referring to M269 and the 42 other SNPs that are on that level.You are referring to M343 then.
                          As I stated previously, I was not referring to any R1b SNP or subclade.

                          Don't put words in my mouth or attempt to guess what I am referring to.

                          Read the actual post, process and retain what is written:

                          Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                          If you read through post 28 and 30 on this forum, I stated that SNP counting (and your designated average SNP mutation rate) is not credible evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago.

                          Post 28: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...9&postcount=28
                          Post 30: http://forums.familytreedna.com/show...5&postcount=30

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Those recent Hungarian finds do have a serious gap in them, jumping as they do from the Neolithic to the late Bronze Age and skipping the intervening periods.

                            So the information we get from these ancient y-dna finds is that R1b and R1a were probably not yet present in Hungary in the Neolithic, and that the single set of male remains from the Kyjatice Culture, an Urnfield offshoot, dated to 1270-1110 BC (late Bronze Age), was J2a1.

                            Concerning R1b, we know that R1b (U106-) was recovered from the Bell Beaker site near Kromsdorf, Germany, circa 2600-2500 BC. Kromsdorf is near Weimar in east central Germany. No older R1b has yet been found in Europe.
                            Last edited by Stevo; 28th November 2014, 02:57 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                              As I stated previously, I was not referring to any R1b SNP or subclade.

                              Don't put words in my mouth or attempt to guess what I am referring to.

                              Read the actual post, process and retain what is written:
                              "While we are still investigating Ancient DNA, there is currently no evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago."

                              Who is the we? Are you a scientist?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Stevo View Post
                                Those recent Hungarian finds do have a serious gap in them, jumping as they do from the Neolithic to the late Bronze Age and skipping the intervening periods.

                                So the information we get from these ancient y-dna finds is that R1b and R1a were probably not yet present in Hungary in the Neolithic, and that the single set of male remains from the Kyjatice Culture, an Urnfield offshoot, dated to 1270-1110 BC (late Bronze Age), was J2a1.

                                Concerning R1b, we know that R1b (U106-) was recovered from the Bell Beaker site near Kromsdorf, Germany, circa 2600-2500 BC. Kromsdorf is near Weimar in east central Germany. No older R1b has yet been found in Europe.
                                Why are you making this up. You don't need to.It seems like you are trying to make it fit with your ideas.

                                Comment

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