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Ancient genomes in Hungary from different times, Neolithic to Iron Age

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
    It is possible that ancient R1b will be found in western Europe also.
    We're waiting. If and when they are found, then we'll start taking your wishful thinking seriously.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
      We're waiting. If and when they are found, then we'll start taking your wishful thinking seriously.
      And you are wishing for a R1b result from Hungary.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
        And you are wishing for a R1b result from Hungary.
        I'm not wishing for anything. I let the data determine what I believe, not speculation that's based on what I hope to be the case.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
          I'm not wishing for anything. I let the data determine what I believe, not speculation that's based on what I hope to be the case.
          The M343 mutation happened 20,000 years ago and where did it occur?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
            The M343 mutation happened 20,000 years ago and where did it occur?
            No one knows for certain exactly where it occurred. So, I can't answer your question. I suppose you believe that you know where it occurred??!!

            Your line of questioning has hijacked this thread, which is about ancient DNA results from Hungary. You've hijacked it to use as a base for your obsession that R1b must have been in western Europe in the last 10,000 years. The study which is the subject of this thread has nothing to say about your obsession.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
              No one knows for certain exactly where it occurred. So, I can't answer your question. I suppose you believe that you know where it occurred??!!

              Your line of questioning has hijacked this thread, which is about ancient DNA results from Hungary. You've hijacked it to use as a base for your obsession that R1b must have been in western Europe in the last 10,000 years. The study which is the subject of this thread has nothing to say about your obsession.
              This study shows that R1b was not in Hungary. That is important as there are lots of posts about my R1b ancestors arriving in the west from Hungary. Furthermore no R1b has been found in the Yamna nor the Corded Ware. Those are the facts.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                This study shows that R1b was not in Hungary. That is important as there are lots of posts about my R1b ancestors arriving in the west from Hungary. Furthermore no R1b has been found in the Yamna nor the Corded Ware. Those are the facts.
                And with dozens of ancient DNA results in the period of 5,000 to 7,000 years ago from the heart of western Europe (sites in Spain, France, Germany and Italy), not one R1b has been found yet. Still you continue to tell us that R1b must have been in western Europe 10,000 years ago.

                Those are the facts which you consistently refuse to consider or even acknowledge.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                  And with dozens of ancient DNA results in the period of 5,000 to 7,000 years ago from the heart of western Europe (sites in Spain, France, Germany and Italy), not one R1b has been found yet. Still you continue to tell us that R1b must have been in western Europe 10,000 years ago.

                  Those are the facts which you consistently refuse to consider or even acknowledge.
                  Are we at the end or the beginning of ancient dna testing?
                  Last edited by 1798; 23 November 2014, 01:02 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                    Are we at the end or the beginning of ancient dna testing?
                    At the point where we see a few R1b results from ancient DNA in Europe, specifically western Europe, from more than 5,000 years ago, I'll congratulate you for being right and being tenacious about it. I've posted that here before and I stand by it.

                    However, until that point your insistence that R1b must have been in western Europe that long ago makes you look ludicrous. And we all know why you insist that it must be the case. It's all because you would like to say that your paternal line has been in Ireland for 10,000 years or more.

                    So, you are willing to ignore the clear evidence (yes, so far) and insist on something that all the evidence tells us is very unlikely. In effect, all the scientific data and most reasonable conclusions based on it have to be thrown out so that you can feel eternally Irish. Very sad!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
                      At the point where we see a few R1b results from ancient DNA in Europe, specifically western Europe, from more than 5,000 years ago, I'll congratulate you for being right and being tenacious about it. I've posted that here before and I stand by it.

                      However, until that point your insistence that R1b must have been in western Europe that long ago makes you look ludicrous. And we all know why you insist that it must be the case. It's all because you would like to say that your paternal line has been in Ireland for 10,000 years or more.

                      So, you are willing to ignore the clear evidence (yes, so far) and insist on something that all the evidence tells us is very unlikely. In effect, all the scientific data and most reasonable conclusions based on it have to be thrown out so that you can feel eternally Irish. Very sad!
                      Who is the "we all know"? You are the sad one. For you and the few, R1b in western Europe has to be no more than 3000 years old to fit with your "ethnic wanderings".I am the one who is interested in the scientific data.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                        Who is the "we all know"? You are the sad one. For you and the few, R1b in western Europe has to be no more than 3000 years old to fit with your "ethnic wanderings".I am the one who is interested in the scientific data.
                        You claim to be "the one interested in scientific data", where is the data to support your position that R1b is 10,000 years old?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                          You claim to be "the one interested in scientific data", where is the data to support your position that R1b is 10,000 years old?
                          128SNPsx150=19,200. 150 per SNP is 6 generations at 25 years or 5 generations at 30 years.There are an average of 36 SNPs under U106 from the 260 U106 Big-Y tests and rest of the SNPs are on the FTDNA Y-tree from M343 to U106. Those SNPs above U106 are from the Geno2 tests and there will be more to be added from the Big-Y tests in the future.It is a rough guide at present.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                            128SNPsx150=19,200. 150 per SNP is 6 generations at 25 years or 5 generations at 30 years.There are an average of 36 SNPs under U106 from the 260 U106 Big-Y tests and rest of the SNPs are on the FTDNA Y-tree from M343 to U106. Those SNPs above U106 are from the Geno2 tests and there will be more to be added from the Big-Y tests in the future.It is a rough guide at present.
                            Counting SNPs and deciding to use 150 years as the "average mutation rate" is not scientific data, nor is it evidence.
                            Last edited by N21163; 24 November 2014, 08:25 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by N21163 View Post
                              Counting SNPs and deciding to use 150 years as the "average mutation rate" is not scientific data, nor is it evidence.
                              The SNPs were discovered by scientists and added to the Y-tree in the correct positions. The evidence of our past is in our dna. It depends on the way that one interprets it.You don't want to see it so you are not able to.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                                The SNPs were discovered by scientists and added to the Y-tree in the correct positions. The evidence of our past is in our dna. It depends on the way that one interprets it.
                                This has been discussed many times. I have no problems with theories if they are backed up with credible evidence.

                                SNP counting is not credible evidence.

                                You want R1b to be in Europe from 10,000 years ago so you are trying to concoct methods to support your beliefs. This is called a confirmation bias.

                                Originally posted by 1798 View Post
                                You don't want to see it so you are not able to.
                                If new information was to come to light that supports R1b being present in Europe earlier than previously thought I am willing to change my position.

                                While we are still investigating Ancient DNA, there is currently no evidence for R1b being present in Europe 10,000 years ago.

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