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  • #16
    Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
    they dont own mine.
    well that wasnt' was going on with the
    double taxes here in that time frame anyway .
    they were strictly double taxed skin colors.
    I am not sure what you mean, purple flowers.

    The original intent of this thread was that PDHOLTEN, was asking about migrational patterns as to ancestry of his/her family. PD noted Canadian and Carolinian connections from a Colonial MD line and wondering about that. As I said, people did migrate from that area, both to Canada and to the Carolinas and I gave a few of the reasons people would have done that, based on what I know as to my family heritage. Within my Bonham family, I know that a Loyalist Bonham went to Canada and that some of that family later, migrated back to MI and know that others (who ended u fighting on the American side, when it came to a Revolution) went NC (and some of those actually went via MD prior to NC - so similar to what PD is saying), due to the "Coxe Affair" (have sent a link as to that and as to the double taxation issue, which had nothing to do with their "color" or their religion, just an example of maltreatment by the Brits and one thing that sparked the American Revolution). My Friends who went south to NC from MA, were looking for opportunity as to land, I imagine. Later on they went to OH and IN. What I was trying to point out was that it was not necessarily for idealogical reasons that our ancestors migrated as they did. Often it was because they were trying to better the opportunities for themselves and their families as best they could.


    • #17
      SKARFs not SHARFs

      First, my name is Irish, not German. It is a Keltic Sch. It is pronounced SKARF, not SHARF. Second, my father was not born with it. Third, the Scharf name was one the Polish Scharfs took when forced to have last names about 400 years ago.

      The first I heard of that SHARF name in film was a Walter Scharf involved in the production of a film. The first time I heard it used for a character was a Jewish supporter on the list - Schindler's list. I believe they were Polish Jews.

      As you know, scharf is German for sharp. There are Proto-Indo-European connections between the meaning of the Keltic SKARF and the Germanic SHARF. The Dutch group is also SKARF. I met a Schipper who pronounced his name SKIPPER.

      While I may have connections to Germany, it is not through what I call my "slave name," given the manner in which it came to him. He was taken from an orphanage for farm work maintaining a windmill at about seven. The origin of this SKARF was Ireland. He came to the US while his brother moved to Australia in the late 1800s. They spell their names Scarf, dropping the H, to avoid the confusion.

      My half brother's son gave up and started letting them call him Sharf. Another half brother is certain my father was German, but he does not have a clue as to the Irish roots of the family who took him.

      My FATHER's two brothers were also taken from the same orphanage, but they were taken by a daughter of the same family. So, my father was his older brother's uncle, from that perspective and they have the name Shurvington.

      I do not know who my grandfather, grandmother, or my aunt who died in the orphanage were. Neither the Shurvington branch nor the Scharf branch know what our original origins or surnames were. That is compounded by the fact that my Father died before I could speak and my uncles all passed away before I was an adult.

      In my maternal lineage, I can trace back to Germany, but those portions of the family immigrated to Goochland County, Virginia about 300 years ago. My direct maternal lineage is likely to Scotland under the name Werk or Work.

      In my paternal linege I am J1c3d. There are some J1c3ds in Ireland with roots going back to a place beyond the English Pale over 200 years. I have about as many connections to them as I do to those in the Jewish Pale of Poland, genetically. On my 385a/b, I am a 12/17 instead of 13/18. It is a haplotype almost identical to the Cohen Modal Haplotype, only more common to the area south of the Caucasus Mountains between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea.

      SO, I doubt there is any connection between your German co-worker and myself that can be established either by paper or genetics.

      Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
      Hi John Scharf,
      We had a German national working in our office in Berlin, Germany (1956-59) named Kurt Scharf. Maybe you have Scharf relatives in Berlin. We were the equivalent of the American public health office (Amerikanisches Gesundheits Amt). He said his family was from the province of Mecklenburg.


      • #18
        Hi again John,

        It's probably just as well that you're not related to that nest of ex-nazis who worked for the Americans in Berlin. The USA was much more scared of commies than ex-nazis at that time. And efficient Germans who could be more or less trusted were hired, as long as they were not connected to the commies. Oh well, life goes on.


        • #19
          Surnames and Assumptions-Politics & Racism.

          I can understand why a defeated foe is not as much a concern as one that is outstanding. Given what Stalinization did, I am not sure more were killed by Tsarist and Marxist Russian pograms than the Nazis. Nazi Socialism and Marxist Socialism are two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

          Those who claim to be a "democracy" are just an aristocracy claiming to be "representatives" whild runing a republic without the consent of the governed. They call a vote of the people a "mobocracy" while re-electing the same mob of degenerates. They claim to be representing the people while doing exactly the opposite of what those being governed know to be correct.

          I believe in the right of the people to rule. I believe that the majority of the plain people of the United States will, day in and day out, make fewer mistakes in governing themselves than any smaller class or body of men, no matter what their training, will make in trying to govern them.

          When it comes to politics, it is best to avoid them in a forum like this. It ultimately leads to racism, which is an arcane ignorant cultural construct based on autosomal genes that disappear in seven generations.

          You need to look not further than the poster boy for Nazis used to represent the model Aryan, Warner Goldberg. Hitler himself had to keep it quiet by declaring Goldberg, a Jew, to be an Aryan, by fiat.

          One journalist claims to have contacted relatives of Hitler, who have changed their names, in the US for DNA samples. I do not know if it is true, but they say Hitler was E1b1b - a haplogroup more common to Southern Africa than Northern Europe. Hitler wanted to marry his own cousin. That may be okay in a more heterogeneous nation, but Germany is not one. I can see why he liked the idea of an inbred Aryan.

          I looked at my family tree and they did not branch much until about 200 years ago. My folks are not inbred. They may be hybrid, but they were not out bred. They covered most of the Eastern seaboard, if the grave markers are any clue.

          When it comes to genes, people are almost like dogs. Inbreeding causes issues. I loved my lab and she lived to be 14, but it was her genetic hip dysplasia that ultimately got her. Many "pure bred" animals have these issues, so we should not expect homo sapiens to be different. There is nothing pure about a "pure race." TO ME, it is just another form of incest. They call me a mongerel race, so I feel fine calling them inbred.

          When it comes to eugenics, the Nazis were informed by US law in general and California law in particular. Margaret Sanger contributed as much to Nazi morality as any German philosopher.

          We have a long history of concentration camps and extermination programs that are history we'd like to ignore since President Jackson's relocation camps for Native Americans.

          SO, I cannot get too concerned about who they hired after WW2 to administer health programs. No policy is ever perfect. You have to weigh the evidence and make the best choice you have at the time, particularly after huge forced migrations; to make reparations. Nazism and Marxism are resident evils best left behind while trying to gain a sense of community.

          Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
          Hi again John,
          It's probably just as well that you're not related to that nest of ex-nazis who worked for the Americans in Berlin. The USA was much more scared of commies than ex-nazis at that time. And efficient Germans who could be more or less trusted were hired, as long as they were not connected to the commies. Oh well, life goes on.