Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rather an unsuccess

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rather an unsuccess

    I don't have anyone to seriously talk to, regarding my maternal U5b2 line. My son in Germany locked me out of his life, so he'll just have to do his own independent investigation; if he even cares. And my sister acts totally bored with the tree I put together. Everybody else has gone to meet their ancestors in the sky. Theoretically, there are still a few surviving matches out there somewhere around the country. I suspect Iowa could be a strong point.

    As time goes by, it looks increasingly likely to me that my U5b2 haplotype traces back to early Massachusetts. How did some of them get down to the Carolinas, I wonder. It's nice to have an HVR1+HVR2 haplotype that is rare. The 228A really narrows it down. I traced the MA connection back from a Canadian match in the Sorenson database. That thread left Massachusetts just after the War of 1812 for New Brunswick, then to Ontario. Anyway, I suspect now that any and all HVR1+HVR2 matches (in the USA), that trace back to the colonial era, end up in Massachusetts. But I could be wrong.
    Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 12 June 2011, 06:22 PM.

  • #2
    U5 a paleolithic mtDNA haplogroup

    Well U5b is just as likely to be native as U5a haplogroup to the British Isles. It is not likely to have come from any Norse maternal lineage. It seems to have come with the territory. See this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...he_Cheddar_Man

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man

    Bramanti, et al. Genetic Discontinuity Between Local Hunter-Gatherers and Central Europe
    http://www.roceeh.uni-tuebingen.de/r...9_Meso_Neo.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View Post
      Well U5b is just as likely to be native as U5a haplogroup to the British Isles. It is not likely to have come from any Norse maternal lineage. It seems to have come with the territory. See this:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...he_Cheddar_Man

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man

      Bramanti, et al. Genetic Discontinuity Between Local Hunter-Gatherers and Central Europe
      http://www.roceeh.uni-tuebingen.de/r...9_Meso_Neo.pdf
      I change my mind rather frequently, and am not a scientist. Yeah, U5b is well represented in the British Isles. But it looks to me that my own slender branch may have arrived, at least in part, via Scandinavia. There are a few samples from Norway and Sweden that are close, as well as one from the Faroe Islands. They lump my HVR1 with HVR1s that only have 16270 (without the 16519), since many databases don't test for 16519. I have the most (lumped) HVR1 matches in Ireland (currently 13). My lonely FGS seems to point to Ulster Scots via a female who was born in 1620, and married in 1638 in Massachusetts. Although that superficially suggests English (and maybe it is), there was a sail ship that arrived there in 1636 carrying about 140 Irish Calvinists. I assume they integrated with the Puritans already there. Her descendants have people of Scotch descent sprinkled in the tree.

      I don't have a paper trail connecting me with that tree. My earliest known female ancestress was supposedly born about 1759 in the Anson County area, NC. But she may have also been born in, say, Virginia, since there doesn't seem to be any record of her existence before she married Jacob Falconbury in 1777. How to connect the two trees with the same rare HVR1+HVR2 U5 haplotype is a puzzlement. There is a lot of room for speculation.

      The only other person in my FGS U5b2b2 haplogroup sub-clade (PhyloTree) seems to be firmly from England; probably via Doggerland. That one has several probable matches in the U5 Project chart, if they would ever have their FGS done.
      Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 14 June 2011, 10:32 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
        I don't have anyone to seriously talk to, regarding my maternal U5b2 line. My son in Germany locked me out of his life, so he'll just have to do his own independent investigation; if he even cares. And my sister acts totally bored with the tree I put together. Everybody else has gone to meet their ancestors in the sky. Theoretically, there are still a few surviving matches out there somewhere around the country. I suspect Iowa could be a strong point.

        As time goes by, it looks increasingly likely to me that my U5b2 haplotype traces back to early Massachusetts. How did some of them get down to the Carolinas, I wonder. It's nice to have an HVR1+HVR2 haplotype that is rare. The 228A really narrows it down. I traced the MA connection back from a Canadian match in the Sorenson database. That thread left Massachusetts just after the War of 1812 for New Brunswick, then to Ontario. Anyway, I suspect now that any and all HVR1+HVR2 matches (in the USA), that trace back to the colonial era, end up in Massachusetts. But I could be wrong.
        During/ the American Revolution, there were Loyalists who went to Canada. Loyalists were not thought well of post- American Revolution. Sometimes people went to Canada and later on migrated back to waht became the US. Often they migrated back via, eg Michigan or other States that border Canada. As to migration from MA and down South to the Carolinas, that occurred in a number of cases for various reasons and was not uncommon, especially prior to the Revolution. People migrated then, for religious reasons, because their land was being double taxed where they were living (before the Revolution), for land opportunities otherwise, etc.. AS to going South to the Carolinas from MA, most of my family who did that were Quakers. Family from NJ went to NC due to unfair treatment as to taxation, authorities wanting them to pay twice for their land. So any number of reasons and not unusual.

        Comment


        • #5
          Meant to say "during/after" the Revolution ..

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Peacock100 View Post
            During/ the American Revolution, there were Loyalists who went to Canada. Loyalists were not thought well of post- American Revolution. Sometimes people went to Canada and later on migrated back to waht became the US. Often they migrated back via, eg Michigan or other States that border Canada. As to migration from MA and down South to the Carolinas, that occurred in a number of cases for various reasons and was not uncommon, especially prior to the Revolution. People migrated then, for religious reasons, because their land was being double taxed where they were living (before the Revolution), for land opportunities otherwise, etc.. AS to going South to the Carolinas from MA, most of my family who did that were Quakers. Family from NJ went to NC due to unfair treatment as to taxation, authorities wanting them to pay twice for their land. So any number of reasons and not unusual.
            Thanks for your interesting reply. I ran into other family trees that came down from New England, looking at family forums for example. Also, I noticed a family with a rather rare last name that were both in MA and Virginia. That family married an early MA girl with my mtDNA U5 HVR1+HVR2. So they could have given support for relatives who moved down from MA, for example. My line eventually moved up to Indiana, via NC, SC, and KY over the decades. Maybe they didn't like the slave culture in the South? Anyway, pioneering movements in general were mostly southward until the French and Indian War was won, and then movement shifted toward the West. By the way, there was a Quaker couple in my tree, but in another maternal branch; Puckett was the last name. That Puckett male line went back to Oxfordshire, England.
            Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 21 June 2011, 10:37 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              U5b2b2

              I thought the U5 crowd came with the territory in the UK as they followed the ice sheets back after one of the ice ages. I guess only the U5a must be native to the UK?

              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
              Thanks for your interesting reply. I ran into other family trees that came down from New England, looking at family forums for example. Also, I noticed a family with a rather rare last name that were both in MA and Virginia. That family married an early MA girl with my mtDNA U5 HVR1+HVR2. So they could have given support for relatives who moved down from MA, for example.....
              U5b2b2 (Phylotree): HVR1 16270T,16519C. HVR2 73G,150T,228A,263G,309.1C,315.1C.
              Thought to be from the UK (especially Ulster-Scots < Old Norse?)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Peacock100 View Post
                to pay twice for their land. So any number of reasons and not unusual.
                did you know that these people who were to pay twice were people of colors/ non
                whiteish?
                you might want to do alot more checking around on your branch of "quakers" do check out adoptions and quakers conversions and praying towns and such , <removed><LOL>!
                Last edited by Darren; 30 June 2011, 09:26 PM. Reason: Edited for content

                Comment


                • #9
                  You REALLY do not want to get into this.

                  Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
                  did you know that these people who were to pay twice were people of colors/ non
                  whiteish?
                  you might want to do alot more checking around on your branch of "quakers" do check out adoptions and quakers conversions and praying towns and such ,<removed><LOL>!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JohnLloydScharf View Post
                    You REALLY do not want to get into this.
                    Quaker is a religion not a genealogy , a history or a color of anyone skin , no matter what anyone may tell you ok .
                    Last edited by purple flowers; 30 June 2011, 10:25 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Quaker Not a Geneology

                      Would you swear to that?
                      Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
                      Quaker is a religion not a genealogy , a history or a color of anyone skin , no matter what anyone may tell you ok .
                      The double taxation is not unusual in nations with a state religion. It is a form of paying tribute.

                      As is, we do not own land. We purchase the right to rent it from the government. They just call the rent "property taxes." All property taxes are a way for the state to steal property. The Emperor of China came to own all the land through property taxes.

                      All taxes are used to promote a social order. The US is certainly not an exception. Any time there is a tax deduction, that means they are promoting a certain social order economically.


                      It is not unusual for geneology to turn to the subject of race. However, I prefer to stay clear of racism as it is based on autosomal traits bound to be washed out in six generations, unless you are inbred rather than hybrid. It ascribes behaviors based on prejudice, which is a cultural construct; not science.
                      Last edited by JohnLloydScharf; 30 June 2011, 10:53 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi John Scharf,

                        We had a German national working in our office in Berlin, Germany (1956-59) named Kurt Scharf. Maybe you have Scharf relatives in Berlin. We were the equivalent of the American public health office (Amerikanisches Gesundheits Amt). He said his family was from the province of Mecklenburg.
                        Last edited by PDHOTLEN; 1 July 2011, 02:27 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          they dont own mine.
                          well that wasnt' was going on with the
                          double taxes here in that time frame anyway .
                          they were strictly double taxed skin colors.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
                            did you know that these people who were to pay twice were people of colors/ non
                            whiteish?
                            you might want to do alot more checking around on your branch of "quakers" do check out adoptions and quakers conversions and praying towns and such , <removed><LOL>!
                            Here is a link about people from NJ who left NJ and went to NC. If link does not work, try searching for "The Coxe Affair". My family who left NJ for that reason were Bonhams and were Baptists. Link is http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dew...tmerjersey.htm

                            There was a reason or were reasons we fought the American Revolution and this was one of them, i.e. colonists being treated unfairly by the British. This was just one example that hit some of my family.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by purple flowers View Post
                              Quaker is a religion not a genealogy , a history or a a color of anyone skin , no matter what anyone may tell you ok .
                              That is correct, as to being a religion. And the proper term, is a member of the Society of Friends. and not "Quaker". On the other hand, the Society of Friends started in England. Because they were persecuted there, many moved to Holland before moving on to the British Colonies in what became the US. After that, some people joined the movement, for religious or whatever reasons. Some people just liked the religion and some md. a person who was a member of the Society of Friends and joined for that reason.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X