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  • Yaffa
    replied
    Leaving out price between companies and all that. The advantage of 23andMe is they include X matching which can further help for those who are missing closer relatives. I hope FTDNA is in the works of adding X matching to FF

    Leave a comment:


  • Geneadict
    replied
    Of course if someone is critical about ancestry.com because of their overwhelming market share for online genealogical resources, but at the same time blindly defensive of FTDNA with their near monopolistic control of Genetic Genealogy market (having bought out or put several competitors in the YDNA and mtDNA testing market out of business) prior to the advent and utilization of autosomal SNP microarray testing, I would have to call that ironic, or perhaps a better word is hypocritcal.

    Of course the advent of using autosomal SNP microarray data for large scale genealogical use was a major game changer and I imagine a large % of dollars spent in the hobby have shifted to this testing since 23andMe introduced their Relative Finder tool which resulted in FTDNA's quick and evidently haphazard (based on Affy debacle) entry into that testing market. Apparently FTDNA did not do adequate due diligence with regard to processing costs, error rates, and SNP comparability to 23andMe's Illumina data given very early comments that indicated intent to allow 23andMe uploads from the start (which we are still waiting on and are supposed to see role out 5-6 weeks from a week ago). Perhaps they should have spent more time on this and less on designing their "sex doesn't matter anymore" t-shirt. Could have saved themselves the cost and goodwill associated with scrapping Affy less than a year into production and retesting their entire database on Illumina, but they are none the less better positioned for the long term on Illumina.

    Unfortunately, the net result of their monopolistic control of the YDNA and mtDNA testing markets has left us with fixed prices, and even nearly fixed sale pricing (albeit, the frequency of sales has increased in the last 12 months compared to prior years) in spite of downward pricing pressure on many other industries during our economic downturn.

    Also unfortunate that FTDNA has decided to treat their autosomal DNA test pricing the same way as their Y and mtDNA in spite of pricing pressure from competition, additional competition on the horizon, and their own announced 23andMe upload option that is supposed to be around $50 which essentially puts them in competition with themselves based on their current base and sale pricing. Their pricing of autosomal test also appears to show they fail to recognize the value of testing multiple close family members that are not as relevant to YDNA or mtDNA testing. The autosomal DNA testing is a different animal and FTDNA has continued to loose market share since entering the market. While the 23andMe upload option is a plus, it may be too little, too late.

    While pros/cons of 23andME vs FF are many and addressed in many places, I would find it hard for anyone to argue that getting both is not advantageous to just one or the other. With the $50 upload option, a person can now buy a 23andMe test and do the upload for LESS than buying FF test from FTDNA as follows:

    Base Pricing:
    FF $289
    23andMe: Base $99, 1 yr sub ($108), FF upload $50 = $257

    Sale Pricing:
    FF $199
    23andMe: (based on last 2 sales and assuming no change in sub rate, but future sale pricing unknown: $0 or $50, 1 yr sub ($108), FF upload $50 = $158 to $208

    And that's before any muti-purchase discounting which 23andMe offers via it's family plan subscription pricing.

    About the only advantage for purchasing a FF test is related to ability to purchase YSTR or mtDNA tests using the same sample. So if someone is in a position where getting an additional sample to test with 23andMe is not feasible, or in some cases not even possible, and they already have a sample in storage with FTDNA this may be a compelling reason to make the purchase.

    Of course, FTDNA's unwillingness to reduce FF price or any of their pricing any further, or offer any sort of multi-purchase discounting, along with many of the new or additional sale efforts being tied to Facebook and not freely offered to all existing customers, is a good indication that FTDNA considers it's existing customers as "cash cows" and they will continue to "milk us" as long as they generate adequate sales, which of course is a detriment to consumers who would benefit from greater growth in the databases, especially FF which is still too small for them to even officially report on their website where they brag about the size of their database.


    And for those bothered by some of this thread going a little off track, please don't loose sight that discussing all the genealogical tools available (both conventional and genetic) are very relevant to the threads beginnings DNA Success Story theme.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yaffa
    replied
    Originally posted by mudgeeclarke View Post
    i vote for this thread being "most convoluted thread of 2011" at the forthcoming annual mct gala. It's not dirty, and it's not a secret.
    Focus on finding answers to those secrets anyway possible :d

    Leave a comment:


  • Mudgeeclarke
    replied
    Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
    You have taken this thread completely off topic.
    I vote for this thread being "Most Convoluted Thread of 2011" at the forthcoming Annual MCT Gala. It's not dirty, and it's not a secret.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yaffa
    replied
    Daroll while I can sympathize about false genealogy out there, this thread is about helping people though adoption and secrets and lies and the DNA tests out there that can help them find answers. This thread is not about you or the issues you have with DNA and genealogy companies. You have taken this thread completely off topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geneadict
    replied
    Originally posted by darroll View Post
    I used to do genealogy until one company took over with all the records.
    Now My grandfather is a female, my great grandmothers genealogy is a mess.
    They show people born before their parents, etc
    Now this same bunch is trying to take over DNA testing. I wonder how much bad DNA information is out there now. Talk about mutations, how many are caused by transferring data to every DNA site on the net.
    The biggest waste of my time in my life was doing genealogy and watching all of the bad information being passed around.
    I can empathize and have spent a fair amount of time trying to correct errors in various online "trees". Of course this is not a new problem given the same complaints can be made with regard to LDS IGI and many published genealogies from a century ago.

    But let's not through the baby out with the bathwater. Everyone should take undocumented "trees" with a grain of salt. The real value can be found in the original online document images available and the indexing (even if the indexes can have problems too).

    I'm not a big fan of how ancestry.com has handled their earlier venture into DNA testing with YSTR and mtDNA, so we'll have to wait and see on how they handle the autosomal. Meanwhile, 23andMe does have clear advantages with the size of their autosomal database and the possibility of finding YSTR matchs with ancestry or SMGF, even if you do not test with them is still a good reason to take advantage of them.

    Of course familysearch.com is still out there and free, and ancestry.com's purchase of rootsweb hasn't eliminated that as a free resource either. Plenty of other resources including Find-A-Grave, usgenweb, and various state and library websites, as well as various county genwebs and genealogical society websites, all with good resources, many of which can be found through a google search or Cyndi's list. One I really like is the Muncie (IN) Public Library with numerous imaged court and property records. Many other free newspaper and directories imaged and available online as well, such as the Cedar Rapids Iowa Public Library, SFGenealogy website for San Francisco. And free birth/death records from familysearch and various state websites like that for the state of Arizona. I could go on and on.

    Leave a comment:


  • AngeliaR
    replied
    Play in Peace

    Darroll,

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I will absolutely defend your right to it...

    But, please, let the rest of us play at peace. All we are seeking is knowledge of our own personal heritage and seeking it where ever we can. True, some are misguided and don't challenge the "Facts" as they should, but that's where the rest of us can provide education and support in a kind, non-threatening manner.

    Please let us enjoy our family pursuit and allow us to pick through what may or may not be valid.

    Thank you for understanding there are others who still like genealogy and dna application to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • darroll
    replied
    Originally posted by Geneadict View Post
    Let's see, this portion of the forum is called "DNA Success Stories" and sorry to say there are more tools available than those offered here that may be of use to people.

    Not sure where you're coming from with regard to your comment about "genealogy going south" given the advancement in information availability via the internet and advent of genetic genealogy. Granted I share some sentiment for the lost art of research prior to the internet, but there is still plenty of research that still takes additional skill beyond one's ability to search ancestry.com or familysearch.com, but I'll take the sheer volume of information and speed to access it, which can also free up more time for more complex research, than going back to driving several hours to a research library, national archives regional office, or LDS family history center, and spending hours using microfilm soundex to locate federal census or passenger list entries, or using a city directory and ED maps to locate someone in a state census. Things will only get better when all the LDS microfilms are digitized, indexed, and available online.

    Meanwhile, many brick walls have been taken down and NPEs that were previously lost to time have been uncovered and continue to be solved regularly through the use of multiple genetic genealogy and convention genealogy tools that would simply not have been possible 20 years ago.

    What you're seeing is in fact a renaissance or age of enlightenment for genealogy and it's only going to get better with larger DNA and relational databases, and research compilations that may enable almost anyone near instant access to a very detailed and well researched genealogy with just a simple DNA test and a very small amount of research effort.

    Now if this were a section of the forum or even a thread on the subject of narrow minded cheerleading for FTDNA and people with very little interest in creating there own DNA Success story, then your comments would be more appropriate.
    I used to do genealogy until one company took over with all the records.
    Now My grandfather is a female, my great grandmothers genealogy is a mess.
    They show people born before their parents, etc
    Now this same bunch is trying to take over DNA testing. I wonder how much bad DNA information is out there now. Talk about mutations, how many are caused by transferring data to every DNA site on the net.
    The biggest waste of my time in my life was doing genealogy and watching all of the bad information being passed around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geneadict
    replied
    Originally posted by darroll View Post
    I log on this site seeing what's going on with FTDNA.
    It looks like I have to put up with the suspected copy cat sites
    free advertising.
    When DNA testing goes south like genealogy has gone please let me know so I can play hop scotch.
    Let's see, this portion of the forum is called "DNA Success Stories" and sorry to say there are more tools available than those offered here that may be of use to people.

    Not sure where you're coming from with regard to your comment about "genealogy going south" given the advancement in information availability via the internet and advent of genetic genealogy. Granted I share some sentiment for the lost art of research prior to the internet, but there is still plenty of research that still takes additional skill beyond one's ability to search ancestry.com or familysearch.com, but I'll take the sheer volume of information and speed to access it, which can also free up more time for more complex research, than going back to driving several hours to a research library, national archives regional office, or LDS family history center, and spending hours using microfilm soundex to locate federal census or passenger list entries, or using a city directory and ED maps to locate someone in a state census. Things will only get better when all the LDS microfilms are digitized, indexed, and available online.

    Meanwhile, many brick walls have been taken down and NPEs that were previously lost to time have been uncovered and continue to be solved regularly through the use of multiple genetic genealogy and convention genealogy tools that would simply not have been possible 20 years ago.

    What you're seeing is in fact a renaissance or age of enlightenment for genealogy and it's only going to get better with larger DNA and relational databases, and research compilations that may enable almost anyone near instant access to a very detailed and well researched genealogy with just a simple DNA test and a very small amount of research effort.

    Now if this were a section of the forum or even a thread on the subject of narrow minded cheerleading for FTDNA and people with very little interest in creating there own DNA Success story, then your comments would be more appropriate.

    Leave a comment:


  • EdwardRHill
    replied
    Rape and incest are a lot to dump on a kid I don't see that being the easiest thing to tell a child maybe when they are older because like you said we all should have the right to know where we come from. Not a easy thing to do when you have been raped.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yaffa
    replied
    Originally posted by Cats View Post
    Some girls/woman did not choose to create a child, they were raped and in some cases it was incest. Very hard to talk about, very hard to judge someone who has lived that horror as well. My heart goes out to all involved, adoptive family, adoptee and birth parents. So many lives affected.
    Even If a child came into this world through rape or incest, That child has a right to know the truth of how they came into this world or dont bring the child into this world if that woman/mother is not prepared to deal with the consequence. Child's rights come first. Im sorry if a woman is in pain from being a rape or incest victim but she also puts that pain on the child for the rest of their lives if she decides to bring that child into this world. The wost thing a parent can do to their child is Lie. If a child cant trust their own parents, who can they trust. I dont care how a child came into this world but that mother who gave birth to that child owes that child the truth.

    I know many adoptees searching and many have Family Finder tested. Many may die never knowing the truth about where they came from and then search continues through their children and so on. Its not fair to them to have their identity's stolen through adoption and secrets.

    Leave a comment:


  • darroll
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    This is just standard procedure from Darroll, who has appointed himself as the defender of FTDNA against all competitors. As has been pointed out to him before, if FTDNA had any qualms about letting their customers speak freely about competitors on this board, they would delete all posts mentioning competitors. The fact that they don't indicates that they are willing to let their customers judge for themselves.

    Your advice to RondaMiller was not out of line and actually quite helpful.
    I log on this site seeing what's going on with FTDNA.
    It looks like I have to put up with the suspected copy cat sites
    free advertising.
    When DNA testing goes south like genealogy has gone please let me know so I can play hop scotch.

    Leave a comment:


  • RondaMiller
    replied
    Originally posted by MMaddi View Post
    This is just standard procedure from Darroll, who has appointed himself as the defender of FTDNA against all competitors. As has been pointed out to him before, if FTDNA had any qualms about letting their customers speak freely about competitors on this board, they would delete all posts mentioning competitors. The fact that they don't indicates that they are willing to let their customers judge for themselves.

    Your advice to RondaMiller was not out of line and actually quite helpful.
    It was helpful I thought however I don't think it was meant for me lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMaddi
    replied
    Originally posted by Geneadict View Post
    Seriously?

    It's called a public service message to help the person who posted this thread find what there looking for?

    If you're of the opinion that some sort of dillusional brand loyalty should preclude the use of other tools, your advice lacks wisdom.
    This is just standard procedure from Darroll, who has appointed himself as the defender of FTDNA against all competitors. As has been pointed out to him before, if FTDNA had any qualms about letting their customers speak freely about competitors on this board, they would delete all posts mentioning competitors. The fact that they don't indicates that they are willing to let their customers judge for themselves.

    Your advice to RondaMiller was not out of line and actually quite helpful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cats
    replied
    Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
    If people aren't prepared to deal with the consequence of creating a human being than they should refrain from creating them. These people don't think the child will grow up one day and want to know who they are. They go through life feeling lost
    Some girls/woman did not choose to create a child, they were raped and in some cases it was incest. Very hard to talk about, very hard to judge someone who has lived that horror as well. My heart goes out to all involved, adoptive family, adoptee and birth parents. So many lives affected.
    Last edited by Cats; 13 November 2011, 03:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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