Recently, I persuaded a relative to take a ytest here in Ireland.I paid for a 37 marker test and we match at 36/37 markers.I am surprised at how acccurate the results are.We are out one at DYS CDYb.He is the only match that I have at 37 markers eventhough there are at least 12000 people of Irish descent tested.All I can say is thanks to FTDNA.
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Originally posted by 1798 View PostI am surprised at how acccurate the results are.We are out one at DYS CDYb.
He is the only match that I have at 37 markers even though there are at least 12000 people of Irish descent tested.
I'm coming around to the conclusion that my patrilineal line may have died/daughtered out in Ireland ... either that or none have tested and put their results online.
But, I live in hope ...
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Originally posted by 1798 View PostI have 221 (12) marker matches and 24 (25 )marker matches.I belong to a small group that came here or else a lot of them died out as well.I think you will find matches as more people are tested.
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Originally posted by 1798 View PostI forgot to mention that most of these matches are people of the P312 subgroup.I belong to U106.Our common ancestor would have been P310 as far as I know.So we still have a similar 12 marker haplotype after 5000 years.Can anyone tell me what is the reason for this?There are people writing on dna -forums who say that the average mutation happens every three generations!!!
Also, R1b1b2 is a relatively young haplogroup. There just hasn't been enough time for mutations to accumulate that would easily distinguish its subclades from each other. The fact is that the modal marker values for R1b-P312 and R1b-U106 differ on 3 or 4 markers out of 67. The average mutation may be one in every three generations, but that's over 67 markers. Some of these markers are remarkably stable and don't change much in the vast majority of R1b1b2 paternal lines in hundreds or perhaps even a few thousand years. So R1b-P312 and R1b-U106, which were probably "born" within a few hundred years or less of each other, look very much alike.
That's why is so difficult to look at an R1b1b2 haplotype and predict accurately whether it will be P312+ or U106+. Only a deep clade test can do that.
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Originally posted by 1798 View PostI forgot to mention that most of these matches are people of the P312 subgroup.I belong to U106.Our common ancestor would have been P310 as far as I know.So we still have a similar 12 marker haplotype after 5000 years.Can anyone tell me what is the reason for this?There are people writing on dna -forums who say that the average mutation happens every three generations!!!
There are a lot of results if you Google this but here's one to start with, note the differing mutation rates depending on which markers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DYS_markersLast edited by mkdexter; 10 June 2010, 01:53 AM.
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Originally posted by 1798 View PostRecently, I persuaded a relative to take a ytest here in Ireland.I paid for a 37 marker test and we match at 36/37 markers.I am surprised at how acccurate the results are.We are out one at DYS CDYb.He is the only match that I have at 37 markers eventhough there are at least 12000 people of Irish descent tested.All I can say is thanks to FTDNA.
There is very little media exposure here in Ireland about genetic genealogy. There has been some media exposure in last couple years (Blood of the Irish) but it's not alot.
When you think of the population in the 1840's, if half the population was male that would be 4million men in Ireland. Now lets say the death rate and emigration rate was spilt equally between men/women. Then you could say that during famine years half million men died and half million emigrated.
So a big chunk of the diaspora origin comes from this period, however male emigrants at the time only make up 1/8 of the pre-famine male population of Ireland, so I wouldn't be surprised that some y-chromosome lineages will only start showing up as more Ireland based people get tested.
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Originally posted by Dubhthach View PostWell I think the issue is due to lack of testing among people actually born in Ireland. I'm from Ireland myself and have recently tested for 67-markers. I have one match at 37-markers with a GD of 4, now that user has a surname variant that I would assume is of American origin (Duffey versus Duffy), however he doesn't have a contactable email address.
There is very little media exposure here in Ireland about genetic genealogy. There has been some media exposure in last couple years (Blood of the Irish) but it's not alot.
I have a copy of "Blood of the Irish". It's not bad as far as it goes, but I feel it concentrates too much on trying to link the current population of the western counties to migration from Iberia, which is only one small aspect of the makeup of the Irish people. I think perhaps an Irish version of "Who Do You Think You Are?" would be a better generator of local interest in genealogy -- at least that has been the experience elsewhere.
When you think of the population in the 1840's, if half the population was male that would be 4million men in Ireland. Now lets say the death rate and emigration rate was spilt equally between men/women. Then you could say that during famine years half million men died and half million emigrated.
So a big chunk of the diaspora origin comes from this period, however male emigrants at the time only make up 1/8 of the pre-famine male population of Ireland, so I wouldn't be surprised that some y-chromosome lineages will only start showing up as more Ireland based people get tested.
Apart from lack of testing, I have to consider the possibility that my paternal line may have died/daughtered out in Ireland.
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Originally posted by gtc View PostWelcome. It's always good to see an Irish person joining.
Thanks for that feedback. I have often felt that genetic genealogy, or perhaps genealogy in general, was not a popular thing in Ireland, although it's difficult to generalize from a distance. I guess it's a common problem that those members of any diaspora are more interested in their countries of origin than the other way around.
I have a copy of "Blood of the Irish". It's not bad as far as it goes, but I feel it concentrates too much on trying to link the current population of the western counties to migration from Iberia, which is only one small aspect of the makeup of the Irish people. I think perhaps an Irish version of "Who Do You Think You Are?" would be a better generator of local interest in genealogy -- at least that has been the experience elsewhere.
I truly wish more Irish men would get tested, however I can't think of a good altruistic impetus for that to occur, other than perhaps a government-sponsored effort to map the genealogical profile of the Irish, and I'm not sure how well such an initiative would be received by the Irish public.
Apart from lack of testing, I have to consider the possibility that my paternal line may have died/daughtered out in Ireland.
I think genealogy in general is quite a popular trait in Irish people, though maybe not to same detailed extent as in US. Here generally I think we are more interested in stuff like sept/tribal allegiance and how that ties in with the old genealogies from before the English came.
Regarding getting more men to test, I would think the government idea probably would be a non-flyer but something like a study done by one of universities (Trinity is the lead here) could be used as a starting point. I heard recently that as part of a promotion in a pub in Athlone that they offered testing to see if people showed up as "Ui Neill" going by the supposed DYS values for Niall na Naoi nGiallach. From what I hear it was actually a very popular exercise. However I don't think anything was published on results etc.
I agree about "Blood of the Irish", there is actually an Irish version of "Who do you think you are", basically tracing celebrities/semi-celebrities ancestory through documentation etc. From what little of it that I did see I don't think they raised the idea of genetic genealogy though.
Regarding your paternal line what surname is attached to it?
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Originally posted by royfarnol View PostI was wondering what kind of percentage of Norse DNA is in the Irish population (including I suppose emigrants)?
Fitzgearld, Butler, Burke, Lynch (though there are native Lynches as well) etc.
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Originally posted by Dubhthach View PostI think genealogy in general is quite a popular trait in Irish people, though maybe not to same detailed extent as in US. Here generally I think we are more interested in stuff like sept/tribal allegiance and how that ties in with the old genealogies from before the English came.
Regarding getting more men to test, I would think the government idea probably would be a non-flyer but something like a study done by one of universities (Trinity is the lead here) could be used as a starting point. I heard recently that as part of a promotion in a pub in Athlone that they offered testing to see if people showed up as "Ui Neill" going by the supposed DYS values for Niall na Naoi nGiallach. From what I hear it was actually a very popular exercise. However I don't think anything was published on results etc.
I agree about "Blood of the Irish", there is actually an Irish version of "Who do you think you are", basically tracing celebrities/semi-celebrities ancestory through documentation etc. From what little of it that I did see I don't think they raised the idea of genetic genealogy though.
Yes, I meant in the sense of popularizing genealogy where it is shown. The great pity to those of us steeped in DNA testing is that none of the WDYTYA programs even mention genetic genealogy; about the only thing that gets a plug is Ancestry.com -- which usually sponsors the series.
Regarding your paternal line what surname is attached to it?
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Further to my above reply (#13), my attention has been drawn to this very interesting project:
http://publish.ucc.ie/doi/atlas
I note in particular this paragraph from the Introduction:
"Likewise, funding will be sought to engage genetic anthropologists to carry out the kind of comparative DNA testing necessary to confirm or refute hypotheses about the nature of the relationships - if any - between the bearers of specific family names and their ethnic roots. It is intended to collaborate with Professor Thomas McCarthy of the Biochemistry Department at University College Cork and the Genetics Department at Trinity College Dublin, assuming adequate funding can be found for such a costly endeavour."
I believe this project is now a few years old.Last edited by gtc; 12 June 2010, 05:39 AM.
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