yDNA Clans for the British Isles - Oisin, Sigurd, Woden, Eshu, Re

[pcaverly]

Bryan Sykes new book "Saxons, Vikings & Celts" mentions 5 major Y clans for the British Isles. The book never shows details on the basic markers for these clans.
Does anyone have any marker details on these clans?

[Jim Honeychuck]

People have been puzzling over that since the book was published. What I've gleaned from the discussion here and elsewhere is:

Oisin: R1b
Sigurd: R1a
Wodan: I
Eshu: E3b
Re: J

Jim

[Kathleen Carrow]

Thanks for that Jim..I keep putting down that book as I cannot exactly figure out who they were..Oishan and Wodan were easy but the others... having trouble with, and the website with markers did not help alot..just made my head ache

[marvallen]

I think that these arbitary, "Cutesy" names confuses the issues but makes the author's ego larger....IMHO...

[derinos]

Sykes' British Clan names are based on totems

The names are not arbitrary.

They give the prominent Deity name recognised by ancient populations, in the geographical areas of post-LGM "origin" of the identified haplogroups, based on the known mytho-archeology.

As long as we know the basis, this can be a useful identity mnemonic, rather like the "flavors" allocated to sub-neutron particles by atomic scientists.

[lgmayka]

They give the prominent Deity name recognised by ancient populations, in the geographical areas of post-LGM "origin" of the identified haplogroups, based on the known mytho-archeology.

No, they don't. The author insultingly pretends that the British Isles is the center of the universe, and names all haplogroups according to their relationship to the British.

R1a is not Norse, but primarily Indic and Slavic.
I is originally Balkan.

[Arch Yeomans]

People have been puzzling over that since the book was published. What I've gleaned from the discussion here and elsewhere is:

Oisin: R1b
Sigurd: R1a
Wodan: I
Eshu: E3b
Re: J

Jim

Yeah, just as vague and general as Oppenheimer's studies. I think more useful data is availble from the Universities in Spain then in U.K., and the United States. The Spanish Universities research papers have proven to be very useful (especially for R1b and the deeper subclades).

Whereas most of the stuff from people selling the DNA "wares" have been in my opinion "behind the times" and oddly they're charging a lot of money for it. Yes, DNA research has become a very lucrative business whether honest or dishonest. I wouldn't be surprised to see government regulation soon.

[Beth Long]

Thank You

No, they don't. The author insultingly pretends that the British Isles is the center of the universe, and names all haplogroups according to their relationship to the British.

R1a is not Norse, but primarily Indic and Slavic.
I is originally Balkan.

Thank you for pointing this out. I am the administator of a project involving Transylvania and Bukovina. Our two most common project haplogroups so far are R1a and I1b, and our people have nothing to do with the British Isles at all(!)

Considering that our project participants are most likely "closer to the source" than R1a's and I1's in the British Isles, it's a little frustrating to see people continuing to analyze these haplogroups in terms of how they pertain to England, Ireland, and Scotland...

Other haplogroups represented in the Bukovina Hungarian Project include J2, E3b, G, and yes, even three R1b1s.

Beth Long

[derinos]

Haplonames? OK, myopic; but not arbitrary.

Choosing names for Haplogroups?
I agree that some English academics have a parochial and myopic world-view of mythology. That is why those name choices are based on (relatively recent) Atlantic seaboard, not just British, mythologies, ignoring the earlier more Eastern origins.

Inappropriate of course; but not arbitrary.

It is a pity that the linguistic tidal surges (eg check out the Albanian language!) of Middle Europe have obscured much ancient mythology.
I have hope that collectors out there are preparing such media. Smetana and Dvorak have written music whose titles and content hints at that stuff; the Baghavad Gita and Mahabarata could offer some mnemonic titles that genomologists could use! Let's throw some suggestions into these threads!

[derinos]

Furthermore...

I notice that Sykes' choices "Eshu" and "Re" are from Levantine locations! He's not so bad, is he?

[MMaddi]

It is a pity that the linguistic tidal surges (eg check out the Albanian language!) of Middle Europe have obscured much ancient mythology.
I have hope that collectors out there are preparing such media. Smetana and Dvorak have written music whose titles and content hints at that stuff; the Baghavad Gita and Mahabarata could offer some mnemonic titles that genomologists could use! Let's throw some suggestions into these threads!

Can you tell me what's wrong with just using the scientifically established haplogroup designations, both yDNA and mtDNA, based on the alphabet and numbers??? It really is confusing to people when each popular author on the subject makes up his own pet names for haplogroups. I know they are writing for a popular audience, but that's really no excuse!

Using the proper phylogenetic designations would also answer the objection of Lawrence about culturally biased naming. It's not a big issue with me, even though my ancestry is not from the British Isles, but I can see his point.

Mike

[marvallen]

Again, it serves no useful purpose, IMO.

[Nagelfar]

Actually, I believe Sykes made it clear that these were the haplotypes associated to those areas within those haplogroups; not the haplogroups themselves; That's why they weren't given as "haplogroups"

[marvallen]

Cutesy Crap...

[fmoakes]

I just finished Sykes' SAXONS, VIKINGS and CELTS. I was also irritated by the "cutesy" titles and found the genetic anthropology treatment a bit light. Also, Sykes' sour grapes related to his problem with Y-DNA turning out to be so productive in genetic genealogy and anthroplogy. His early predictions that the Y chromosome would never rival the Mitochondria obviously is causing him some current discomfort.
I found his brief history of the British Isles and Ireland was very interesting and made the read quite worthwhile.
Floyd Oakes
Y: I1a*
mt: K1a
Ysearch: NTX73