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Whatever the outcome, this will still be a success story :)

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  • Whatever the outcome, this will still be a success story :)

    I'm currently waiting for a 12 marker test (kit A) in our SPRINGER project. I have a very good feeling that this is going to match the I1a-N group that my dad is in. BUT there are many people in the same line as this kit A who feel it really belongs in the same group as a certain R1b group in our project.

    It look me about a year to find someone from this line to test, for some reason I just couldn't find the right person who'd agree to test, and/or someone told everyone in this particular line to run and hide when they saw me coming their way.

    This may not sound so exciting, but I have lived and breathed this DNA testing since I first read the post by our administrator a couple of years ago. He was promoting some weird DNA testing thing, sort of expensive and what the heck would it prove? If one were to go on Ancestry and look at all the SPRINGER trees online, one would soon see that most everyone and their uncle claimed descendency from Christopher Springer, a 'German' who moved to Sweden and d. there c1669.

    When I first started doing gen on line and posted some info, I was told 'Welcome, descendent of Christopher Springer of Sweden!' And soon saw that almost everyone I corresponded with stated they also descended from Christopher. After a short time I came to the realization that we can't ALL be descended from one line of SPRINGERs. I guess I became one of the doubters, one of the party poopers, and found out there were quite a few others. But who were the real 'children of Christopher'?

    So next I found a distant cousin of my mother's Springer line that came from SC. Pretty far from New Jersey where my father's Springer line comes from. Long chapter short, we now have several NJ-line men with 37/37 matches to a couple of SC-line men. No paper trail of course. *Argh! We don need no stinkin papers!*

    OK, so that still didn't have anything to do with who were the real descendents of Christopher. Could I be? I started hearing stories about a Dennis Springer who in 1667 CT married a Mary Hudson. He was said to be from Ireland.

    Some of the NJ lines (not one I connect to via paper but do via DNA) claimed this couple was their line, and they had a few 'Hudson Springer's to semi prove it. And now came these SC Springers, and wouldn't you know, they have a bunch of Dennis Springers mixed in the sons of all the suspected brothers. No Dennis in my NJ line, and no Hudson in my SC line.

    I started to believe both lines of mine, my father's and my mother's, were really from Dennis Springer and Mary Hudson of CT. I started thinking all Dennis Springers must be related. Long chapter short, we came up with a line WITH an early Dennis who is NOT related to our NJ and SC lines. Balderdash! My theory is disproven.

    So here comes this new kit A 12 marker test. It is for a descendent of Dennis Springer who was born in NJ c1712 but moved to VA very early and has many many documented descendents today. His parentage is unknown, but many claim him to be a descendent of Christopher Springer of Sweden, by his son Charles who settled in early DE, right across the river from NJ. A few others believe his line to be that of Dennis Springer of CT and his wife, Mary Hudson.

    Is it going to match the same group my parents both come from, the I1a-N line? Or is it going to match the German R1b line that moved to Sweden and had one son come to America? Or is it going to match one of the other 8 SPRINGER lines in our project or be an entirely new line??

    Stay tuned...

    *come on batch 161!*

  • #2
    Cripe, that was loooooong! Sorry

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    • #3
      Originally posted by melissa
      Cripe, that was loooooong! Sorry
      But it was interesting, so no complaints from me.

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      • #4
        And I should have made it even longer LOL. We have 'proven' the line of Christopher of Sweden. A long time Swedish Springer researcher got one of his cousins to test, I found a 'proven' descendent of Christopher's son, Charles of DE, and he tested, and wow but if we didn't have a match with someone who had already tested who could only get back to the mid 1800s in PA with ties to MD. So now we have two good matches at 37, all 3 are exact matches at 25 (one of them is only out to 25 at the moment)... two are currently waiting for markers out to 67 and one is waiting for an SNP panel. And even though the Swedish gentleman has a different surname, he was said to be a descendent of Christopher even before genetic DNA testing came along for the masses. If he is a good match at 67 with the documented descendent of Charles of DE, I think I will have finally proven my point.

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        • #5
          Very interesting and I will stay tuned.

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          • #6
            I found it fascinating, too.

            I look forward to an update.

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            • #7
              Stevo, only 2,035 posts?? You'd better get busy.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by melissa
                Stevo, only 2,035 posts?? You'd better get busy.
                It's chronic diarrhea of the keyboard.

                I subscribe to the shotgun theory of posting: if I fire off enough pellets, surely some of them will hit the target.

                In the meantime, there are a lot of misses.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stevo
                  It's chronic diarrhea of the keyboard.
                  That is good

                  My wife accuses me of having constipation of the brain and diarrhea of the mouth...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GvdM
                    That is good

                    My wife accuses me of having constipation of the brain and diarrhea of the mouth...
                    I suffer from those same maladies.

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                    • #11
                      This 12 marker kit has been in quality control for a week now... any day! Do any of you ever have the feeling that you are the only one in your surname project that gets excited over ANY new results? Let alone the ones you think are earth-shattering??

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                      • #12
                        If nothing else I guess this teaches patience!!

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                        • #13
                          This morning I woke up to find I have a whole lot of new cousins.. I mean, a WHOLE LOT of cousins that I wasn't sure I had before.

                          The kit I was waiting on has had it's 12 markers posted, and it's not shown as an R1b with hundreds of 12 marker matches. No... it's shown as an I1a, with less than 15 matches, and 7 of those are in our project.

                          The line of this new testee is very well documented back to... hmmm... the oldest known ancestor was b.c1712, but I can't say how well documented that is if the parentage is not proven. BUT, there are documented thousands of descendents, so I have THOUSANDS of new cousins!!

                          Now I just wish there was a way to 'correct' all those erroneous trees on Ancestry... ARGH! They took away the POST-IT notes!! But I do think this gives more credibility to the belief that 'Jacob Springer and his wife, Pheobe Hiobe' were completely made up by Moses Springer in the 1800s, as Jacob and Pheobe were the ones so many Springers used to make the connection between their lines and the line of Christopher Springer of Sweden and his son Charles of DE. Dear dear Charles, who DOES have MANY descendents, too, but Charles was an R1b YAAY!!

                          This means that there is still a very good chance that our I1a's do indeed descend from Dennis Springer d.c1703 m.c1667 Mary Hudson, in CT and had sons Dennis, John and Benjamin. I think Dennis and Mary were Quakers. That's another point that always had bugged me.. Swedes are very Lutheran generally, NOT Quaker, and Charles of DE was Lutheran, and my early line was Quaker. And none of the main given names matched.. No Christophers or Peters in my line, and no Dennises or Hudsons in the Charles of DE line (LOL, the REAL line).

                          Anyway, I have proved that Dennis b.1712 in NJ is NOT related to Charles b.Sweden, moved to Delaware in the 1660s. Now I have to try and find someone, something, ANYthing, that can possibly help make that connection between the 8 of us, all I1a matches, and Dennis Springer d.c1703 and his wife, Mary Hudson, that delightful couple who were born in Ireland or England, sailed to America, met, and married in CT, had sons John, Dennis and Benjamin.

                          I know that as a project co-admin I shouldn't 'presume' such things.. but I can't help it. I have visions of these sons going from CT, to LI, to NJ.. who stayed. Who went to SC. And no paper trail to connect any of us except for two sets of two men each who can show documentation.

                          For a long time I've had a story about my Benjamin, father of my Samuel b.1789. All that we really know about Ben is found in the guardianship papers for Sam dated 1803. Samuel was only 14ish in 1803, so I doubt Ben was very old then. So we needed to 'fill in some life stories'. Argh, I was sure ol' Ben be a pirate, but then I discovered he had relatives who went and died in Tripoli around that time, so maybe Ben did too, but the ships' crews aren't that well documented so I'll never know. He could have been a whaler, NJ men were often seafaring gents of some sort. Whatever he was, he died young, probably with seaspray on his face and a ship's wheel in his hands... or a plow. I'm just not sure.

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                          • #14
                            Just when I thought we had made progress....

                            http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames....1021.2/mb.ashx

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by melissa
                              Just when I thought we had made progress....

                              http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames....1021.2/mb.ashx

                              Melissa
                              Of course you have made progress... despite what folks who do not fit into the slot they thought they were in have to say..

                              My Carrow family testers did not have any idea what would come up but were ready and willing..the NC and the DE line matched 37/37 after 350 years in America..but we do not match any Carews or Caroons despite early rumors..

                              My Faunt family (1st Cousin) and two men who spell it Fant and were in the US c 1674 while my guys were still shoeing horses on the Tipperary/Limerick border also match in their Sardinian I1b1b..but two others who share our somewhat mythical family tale of Norman French origin do not.. and I know that is a blow..but my great great GF was born in the same small walled Norman built town they had lived in or near since 1308.

                              My Dugan line ( Married my Faunt) has NO Matches..as a matter of fact there are 12 Dugans and only two match each other..my own cousin does not match another Dugan from the same small land locked area of Donegal..

                              Go figure..

                              But ALL of this sheds some light on the family..we just need to continue to sift it and re-arrange it..
                              Don't be discouraged in any way!

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