I Found my gggGrandfather!

[TSBinLV]

I have a success story. I used YDNA testing to confirm the rumored identity of my gggGrandfather. I basically did it like this:

1) I tested my Dad and a "paper-trail" cousin under my ggGrandfather. This way I had two YDNA samples from under my ggGrandfather. My Dad and his cousin matched 34/37 (this is a lot of mutations, I will discuss this below)

2) Then I tested a male who is under the same "paper-trail" tree as my rumored gggGrandfather. As it turned out, this man matched my "paper-trail" cousin at 36/37.

Considering that the rumored gggGrandfather lived his entire life in the same city as my ggGrandfather, and at the same time, and that he was old enough to be the father of my ggGrandfather when my ggGrandfather was born, I have concluded that YDNA results have confirmed the rumored relationship.

I guess it is *possible* to pick a man at random from this time and place in history, and have his DNA match the DNA from my family tree, but it seems so unlikely that I consider the match to be because of a genuine genetic relationship.

Now, it is weird that my "paper trail" cousin matches my Dad 34/37. This is a lot of mutations for such a short period of time. I am looking into this now. I will be testing more males in my family tree to see where these mutations could have occured in my Dad's line. It is very strange...

I would love to hear any opinions that any one has to offer...

[Victor]

...
Now, it is weird that my "paper trail" cousin matches my Dad 34/37. This is a lot of mutations for such a short period of time. I am looking into this now. I will be testing more males in my family tree to see where these mutations could have occured in my Dad's line. It is very strange...

I would love to hear any opinions that any one has to offer...

The three mismatches could be an acceptable distance if they happened at the fast mutating markers, those whose headings appear in red in the project pages.

Congratulations!

[TSBinLV]

I already checked this - and I believe two of the mutations are on fast-moving markers. I am in the process of testing other relatives in order to pinpoint exactly where each mutation occured. I am fortunate in that there seems to be plenty males to test in my tree...

[M.O'Connor]

I didn't do my homework Yikes. I would have thought you would match all 37 numbers. I guess I better read moe...and I better check those mutations in red. (I must have been away that discussion day, and missed the hand-out..

[TSBinLV]

Well....mutations can and will happen. It's just a question of when.

I am comfortable with the 36/37 match between my "paper-trail" cousin and the other male known to be related to my rumored ancestor. This gives me high confidence that there is a genetic relationship.

The 34/37 match between my Dad and his "paper-trail" cousin raises my eyebrow, but maybe it just goes to show that it is possible to have a lot of mutations between two males sharing a common male ancestor only a few generations back. It may be very rare, but it still *possible*. (somebody has to win the lottery every now and then) Also, this is a new science, and I am sure there is still a lot to learn. In the meantime, I should be able to actually track the mutations. (Maybe my dad was exposed to some radiation - haha. We always said he was a mutant. Uh-oh I guess I am a mutant too! )

[Stevo]

I know this thread is a few months old, but I am curious to know if TSBinLV found out anything further.

Is it possible that 34/37 match represents a common ancestor a little further back than the ggg-grandfather? Same surname, right?

[TSBinLV]

The male in my paper tree whose DNA verified my link to my rumoured gggGrandfather matched 36/37 to another male who has a paper descendency from whom I now believe is my ggggggGrandfather - the common ancestor between all of us.

The 34/37 match is between my dad and his paper-trail cousin, with same surname. Their common ancestor (according to paper records) is their gGrandfather. The paper trail is very strong.

So...the confusing issue here is, why do two cousins who have a strong paper-trail record showing they share a gGrandfather, have THREE mutations between them?

My Dad bears a strong physical resemblence to other distant cousins under his gGrandfather. So I don't think there was any funny business going on - although I could always be wrong about this.


Since I first posted this story, I have since had my Uncle tested (my Dad's brother). This was to see if there were any mutations that occured with the birth of my Dad. It turns out that my Dad and my Uncle are an exact match, so I can assume my Dad had no mutations, and that my Grandfather had the same DNA marker values as my Dad and my Uncle.

There are enough males in my tree who are still alive that I can keep working my way up my tree. For instance, now I can test a male who descends from one of my Grandfather's brothers. This might tell me if some mutations occured with the birth of my Grandfather.

The cousin to whom my Dad matches 34/37 (mentioned at top of this entry) descends from one of my gGrandfather's brothers.

I hope all of that is not too confusing. It always helps to have charts to look at. I have some charts, but I don't think it is possible to post them on this forum.

This is all very fascinating and fun. The hardest part is approaching cousins and asking them to participate. Oh...and the money.

[Stevo]

That is interesting.

You are fortunate to be able to get test results from other male relatives.

In my family I seem to be the Lone Ranger when it comes to an interest in genealogy, especially when it comes to a willingness to spend any money on it.

[TSBinLV]

A Family Website Might Help...

You are fortunate to be able to get test results from other male relatives.

In my family I seem to be the Lone Ranger when it comes to an interest in genealogy, especially when it comes to a willingness to spend any money on it.

I started a website at MyFamily.com, posted a bunch of pictures and historical documents I scanned, and then invited everyone I could think of to join. This has generated interest in the project. I have had several males volunteer and purchase their own kits. You may want to have a look at MyFamily.com if you have not already...

[Stevo]

I started a website at MyFamily.com, posted a bunch of pictures and historical documents I scanned, and then invited everyone I could think of to join. This has generated interest in the project. I have had several males volunteer and purchase their own kits. You may want to have a look at MyFamily.com if you have not already...

Thanks. I'll take a look at that.

[Donald Locke]

TsBinlv
You are doing exactly what I would be doing to try to prove that kinship. Working your way up the tree and testing multiple branches.

The thing that to a small degree concerns me is you said there were 2 fast moving marker mutations and 1 slow moving marker. While I supose this is always possible, it does raise a question. So if it were me in your shoes,
I would upgrade the tests between your father and his cousin and see what happens then, it maybe nothing, it maybe something.

With such a close kinship, I could see 2 fast moving markers at most, but a 3rd in the slow moving marker? hmmm that raises a flag with me. It would seem odd for that many mutations in my mind in such a short period of time.

But I do agree with you that your on the right track and am happy to see your following the paper trail to sort things out

I have 2 cousins whom are 8th and 9th generation distant cousins to me, and at the 12 marker level, we are an exact 12/12 match (yes there is a paper trail linking them in), I will know in the next couple of weeks when my test is upgraded if we have any mutations at the higher marker level. With that distance between me and my 2 cousins, one could expect a mutation or 2, but having 3 with in just a few generations distance?

This is something you could ask of FTDNA to get their opinion on this matter.
For me, if this happened to me, I would question this result with FTDNA.
But I think they will say about the same thing, upgrade and then see what comes of it. 59 or 66 markers tells a much bigger story, and who knows, at the higher marker levels, there may not be any further mutations.
Then again, you may just see a big jump in more mutations and maybe enough of a difference to rule out they shared a common male ancestor?

I hate to speculate in anyway until the 2 tests have been upgraded.

Don

[Stevo]

delete this post

[TSBinLV]

Thanks Don,

I appreciate hearing your opinions. You know, on another thread I posted a message asking if a 66-marker test is really needed, but now that you mention it, I see I'm on of those who could benefit. I just need to save a little money...