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  • #46
    DNA, Genetics, Ethnicity And Culture

    In my mind DNA doesn't determine ethnicity or religion. A man who's family originated in Italy or Greece could be a J, I, E3b, R1b or whatever. His discovery of Haplogroup doesn't make him any less Italian or Greek than anyone else there. Am I right?

    In response to people who have discovered their Jewish relatives, remember they are connecting to not too far distant and known relatives for the most part. Not people with the same Haplogroup 10,000 years ago. I read the posts about the Spanish Jews here in the US and found that to be fascinating. This is where DNA testing shines. Connecting relatives within a culture/religion in recent history.

    My brain says our various modern cultures and ethnicities are not attached to one's DNA Haplogroup but to what took place in a geographic area by groups of people over the years involving people of several Haplogroups. In other words recent recorded history, not something that took place 20,000 years ago. Am I correct here?

    I'm guessing that people 10,000 years ago could care less what Haplogroup each other were if they wanted to survive and populate the earth.

    People are beautiful. They are mixtures of Haplogroups. Just as paintings are beautiful. They are mixtures of colors, textures and brush strokes.

    If you're having a bit of trouble carving out an identity for yourself then DNA isn't going to solve that for you. It is not something that is obtained in a clinical environment such as a laboratory. This is something that is accomplished in a social arena, family, church, temple, etc.

    If I seem to have rambled please accept my apology.

    Just my 2 cents.

    La_Roccia

    Comment


    • #47
      derinos

      Jambalaya32 asks,"Hi,everyone. Would someone tell me if it's possible to get your DNA recognized by our government and it's institutions?"

      I will try and answer, mainly because I enjoyed the discussion you started, and know just a little about government, and DNA.

      The answer to your question is, yes.

      For a few special reasons. More are being added as we speak. The first examples:

      1.If you are under court trial for a major felony, and your DNA corresponds, or does not correpond, to a sample from the scene of the crime.

      2.If you are involved in a court dispute of paternity to establish parental duty and responsibility.

      3.If you have a hereditary disease tendency and a government-sponsored laboratory is surveying for possible clients.

      Note, the Constitution prohibits discrimination because of race, so the last one is technically unlawful. As also is *favorable* discrimination because of being Native American. But the government does it anyway.

      That's Government; so your strong desire to submit your DNA to Government for recognition could be the dangerous start of a slippery slope.
      Depends if you trust Government persons to always do the right thing. Check the news headlines!

      Just think, if Hitler had had the use of DNA identification, fortunately not known in his time, a lot more people would have gone to the gas ovens.

      In your case, you seem to be pleading for a CULTURAL identity. You are lucky not being already committed to one, for you can choose your own, out of the whole world! Your DNA does NOT matter; but your personal heredity and brain construction may influence which cultures you prefer.
      All you have to do is study your chosen culture sincerely and deeply and spend time with the people who practice that culture. You must learn the language, the history, the food, the customs, the costumes, the music. Ah, yes, the music, for that carries the heart, the emotional style of the culture.
      You think you may be German? There are about twenty regional or tribal cultures to choose within Germany, which only became one "nation" in the 19th century. The same goes for many of the world's "States".
      "State" is the right word-it means the administrative condition, (rightly or wrongly), that a bunch of people are kept together by, just now.
      It changes!

      Comment


      • #48
        To: la roccia

        Maybe male DNA is different from females,but I believe I am what the DNA results say,not everything.You can't be everything.A Philipino guy on this site believes he is what his results confirm,so does a Mexican Indian woman.How can you say,it isn't what it is?I ain't everywhere like God is.Maybe it's a white thing.Mostly foreign people acknowledge their race.I never hear an Asian claim to be everything under the sun,just Asian.I never hear a Japanese say,'I'm Black,and Egyptian,and Indian,and Italian,and Spanish,and Jewish,and....they're just Japanese.Most people are mainly something or other,identifying with a group somewhere.You're probably not practicing another culture,or contain a high quantity of their blood,so to me you're not one of them.You could marry one(put yourself out a little-and still not be accecpted),but YOU'RE STILL NOT!So what's the problem with identifying me or anyone as this thing that I am,that I mostly contain?I mean,our dumb leaders and citizens can't make it go away,at least not easily,so they ought to deal with it,...'fess up.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Jambalaia32
          Maybe male DNA is different from females,but I believe I am what the DNA results say,not everything.You can't be everything.A Philipino guy on this site believes he is what his results confirm,so does a Mexican Indian woman.How can you say,it isn't what it is?I ain't everywhere like God is.Maybe it's a white thing.Mostly foreign people acknowledge their race.I never hear an Asian claim to be everything under the sun,just Asian.I never hear a Japanese say,'I'm Black,and Egyptian,and Indian,and Italian,and Spanish,and Jewish,and....they're just Japanese.Most people are mainly something or other,identifying with a group somewhere.You're probably not practicing another culture,or contain a high quantity of their blood,so to me you're not one of them.You could marry one(put yourself out a little-and still not be accecpted),but YOU'RE STILL NOT!So what's the problem with identifying me or anyone as this thing that I am,that I mostly contain?I mean,our dumb leaders and citizens can't make it go away,at least not easily,so they ought to deal with it,...'fess up.

          RACE IS DEAD

          this dna is okay for id'ing
          but i am a mixture of 10,000 lines of y & mtda .

          i am an ethiopean jew who is in a shell of a n irish man check out my picture lol looks like fred flintstone. maybe e3b is right

          Comment


          • #50
            derinos

            So, Jambalaya, what culture would you choose to sample? By turning the pages of Nation Geographic? Viewing videos from all over the world?
            If you live in NY City, you can find a club or restaurant representing a given culture, even if it is rare, just by looking in the Yellow Pages.

            Your own choice, will be Mother Nature's choice, and the right one, for your right now, accumulated heredity, never mind what your partial DNA summary says.
            Just hope it is not on some Government, you know, list...

            Comment


            • #51
              So What are You?

              In your opinion, what do you consider yourself. Not trying to be mean here, but really, just exactly who or what do you consider yourself?

              European?

              Look, I am R1b with English matches but I don't look like no Jude Law with this Black Hair.

              See ya, and hope you recognize your 10,000 other ancestors one day.

              Blackwolf

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by BlackWolf
                In your opinion, what do you consider yourself. Not trying to be mean here, but really, just exactly who or what do you consider yourself?

                European?

                Look, I am R1b with English matches but I don't look like no Jude Law with this Black Hair.

                See ya, and hope you recognize your 10,000 other ancestors one day.

                Blackwolf

                i am me and my son isnt me he is him you are you
                we are all individuals unlike snow flakes we all are truely different

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by BlackWolf
                  In your opinion, what do you consider yourself. Not trying to be mean here, but really, just exactly who or what do you consider yourself?

                  European?

                  Look, I am R1b with English matches but I don't look like no Jude Law with this Black Hair.

                  See ya, and hope you recognize your 10,000 other ancestors one day.

                  Blackwolf
                  Well,I got tested to help confirm who I am.I wasn't Native American,Egyptian,Nubian,my maternal line wasn't Blk.African,my results weren't Spanish,or Scandanavian,or Greek.So I'm ,like,German Genetically Speaking.And they're aren't the NativeBrits,since they invaded Britain,though some may live there now.As for having dark hair,Hitler does,the Queen of England does ,most whites do-they just bleach it.But what race did they get that dark hair from? You tell me dude!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    U can live anywhere but you won't be anything

                    Originally posted by derinos
                    So, Jambalaya, what culture would you choose to sample? By turning the pages of Nation Geographic? Viewing videos from all over the world?
                    If you live in NY City, you can find a club or restaurant representing a given culture, even if it is rare, just by looking in the Yellow Pages.

                    Your own choice, will be Mother Nature's choice, and the right one, for your right now, accumulated heredity, never mind what your partial DNA summary says.
                    Just hope it is not on some Government, you know, list...
                    Sampling a foreign culture is not the same as being a member of your own ethnicity and race group.Anyone can go anywhere and that don't make them part of the culture they're visiting.When you take a vacation do you really feel part of it?I don't.I'll enjoy it,but it ain't my home.It would take years of love and affection by the host country to make me feel at home.As well as blood infusion-you must be the blood they have to feel what they feel.That's why racial blood exists.To have community with people like you-as God intended!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Why not ID us?

                      Originally posted by derinos
                      Jambalaya32 asks,"Hi,everyone. Would someone tell me if it's possible to get your DNA recognized by our government and it's institutions?"

                      I will try and answer, mainly because I enjoyed the discussion you started, and know just a little about government, and DNA.

                      The answer to your question is, yes.

                      For a few special reasons. More are being added as we speak. The first examples:

                      1.If you are under court trial for a major felony, and your DNA corresponds, or does not correpond, to a sample from the scene of the crime.

                      2.If you are involved in a court dispute of paternity to establish parental duty and responsibility.

                      3.If you have a hereditary disease tendency and a government-sponsored laboratory is surveying for possible clients.

                      Note, the Constitution prohibits discrimination because of race, so the last one is technically unlawful. As also is *favorable* discrimination because of being Native American. But the government does it anyway.

                      That's Government; so your strong desire to submit your DNA to Government for recognition could be the dangerous start of a slippery slope.
                      Depends if you trust Government persons to always do the right thing. Check the news headlines!

                      Just think, if Hitler had had the use of DNA identification, fortunately not known in his time, a lot more people would have gone to the gas ovens.

                      In your case, you seem to be pleading for a CULTURAL identity. You are lucky not being already committed to one, for you can choose your own, out of the whole world! Your DNA does NOT matter; but your personal heredity and brain construction may influence which cultures you prefer.
                      All you have to do is study your chosen culture sincerely and deeply and spend time with the people who practice that culture. You must learn the language, the history, the food, the customs, the costumes, the music. Ah, yes, the music, for that carries the heart, the emotional style of the culture.
                      You think you may be German? There are about twenty regional or tribal cultures to choose within Germany, which only became one "nation" in the 19th century. The same goes for many of the world's "States".
                      "State" is the right word-it means the administrative condition, (rightly or wrongly), that a bunch of people are kept together by, just now.
                      It changes!
                      Identifying a person for a felony,paternity,heredity is not identifying just for identity's sake,to know WHO I AM!I'd have to commit a crime,father a bastard,or have a weird disease that no one else has to get identified,but that's under very rare circumstances,which doesn't apply to most people.The only race that gets respect in the U.S. are Arab terrorists,because to over look them is to die early!I also want maternity ID.Sounds crazy,but as important ,and valuable as my females are,for them to be overlooked as,'just a bunch of natives',when they aren't is unforgivable.The Constitution should be changed to allow for Identification,which is not discrimination.Because if nothing has a title,a definition,or description,then how would anything be addressed?Someone must be calling you something somewhere.How come Swedes don't live on Indian reservations.Or Arabs in China?How come Whites can't breakdance and why aren't they slickcool like Negroes?How come minority people don't prefer sweet,pastel things,collegiate stuff and the ballet?How come most groups prefer to be near only their own race? Maybe those things are built in.Maybe the gov.and humans should recognize the powers that be.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Are you putting us on?

                        Originally posted by Jambalaia32
                        How come Whites can't breakdance and why aren't they slickcool like Negroes?How come minority people don't prefer sweet,pastel things,collegiate stuff and the ballet?How come most groups prefer to be near only their own race? Maybe those things are built in.Maybe the gov.and humans should recognize the powers that be.
                        Yeah, and how come African-Americans don't play golf? Oops, I forgot Tiger Woods! OK. How come white dudes can't play basketball well? Darn, I forgot Larry Bird! Do you get my point???

                        You seem to make a big deal about ethnicity and your background, but you go to great lengths that aren't getting to the essence of the matter. I have been debating with myself about your postings. Is Jambalaia just so obsessed with this question that it clouds her judgement? Is she just putting us all on? The problem is you almost legitimized Hitler's crimes in one posting and today you're implying that all Arabs are terrorists. Maybe you should take a timeout.

                        Yes, we all are looking to find out something about our own background or we wouldn't be spending our money and time scraping our cheeks and waiting with excitement for the results. But if there's one thing genetic genealogy tells us is that there is only one human race and ultimately the ancestors of all of us came out of Africa.

                        Mike Maddi

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Yes,I'm serious

                          Yeah,Tiger Woods.He's half Asian and very mild-he's like a Brit royal.White dudes used to play basketball and football-they invented those sports,but now it's a black sport (and sort of a black country too),but mainly due to whites dissolution.As for Hitler,maybe you aren't weren't surrounded by folks who were trying to kick you out of your own country,or do you in.If that was his case then maybe he had to do it.As for mid-east raised Arabs and Muslim Asians,most have the capacity to become terrorists,and not because they are inferior,wild or savage(without reason)but because they are willing to die for their religious beliefs-and take down all their enemies with them. You can bet I'll continue to stay away from Indonesian looking guys with backpacks that creep up on our streets.You say I'm racist, I think I'm wise.And as for the activities many groups prefer-I still say most people prefer their own sort of stuff.
                          Last edited by Jambalaia32; 18 November 2005, 10:54 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jambalaia32
                            Yeah,Tiger Woods.He's half Asian and very mild-he's like a Brit royal.White dudes used to play basketball and football-they invented those sports,but now it's a black sport (and sort of a black country too),but mainly due to whites dissolution.As for Hitler,maybe you aren't weren't surrounded by folks who were trying to kick you out of your own country,or do you in.If that was his case then maybe he had to do it.As for mid-east raised Arabs and Muslim Asians,most have the capacity to become terrorists,and not because they are inferior,wild or savage(without reason)but because they are willing to die for their religious beliefs-and take down all their enemies with them. You can bet I'll continue to stay away from Indonesian looking guys with backpacks that creep up on our streets.You say I'm racist, I think I'm wise.And as for the activities many groups prefer-I still say most people prefer their own sort of stuff.
                            Well, thanks for proving my point. I had an idea you might be a racist, but wasn't sure and didn't say that - I thought you might enjoy putting us on by being provocative. You've certainly removed all doubt from my mind by your statements above.

                            I really feel sorry for you that you're so obsessed by your questions about your own background and the perceived danger that you see from various ethnic groups, religions and races that aren't yours. Please don't abuse a very useful science like genetic genealogy in furthering your agenda. That's about all I have to say in this thread, now that you've said it all for me.

                            Mike

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jambalaia32
                              Yeah,Tiger Woods.He's half Asian and very mild-he's like a Brit royal.White dudes used to play basketball and football-they invented those sports,but now it's a black sport (and sort of a black country too),but mainly due to whites dissolution.As for Hitler,maybe you aren't weren't surrounded by folks who were trying to kick you out of your own country,or do you in.If that was his case then maybe he had to do it.As for mid-east raised Arabs and Muslim Asians,most have the capacity to become terrorists,and not because they are inferior,wild or savage(without reason)but because they are willing to die for their religious beliefs-and take down all their enemies with them. You can bet I'll continue to stay away from Indonesian looking guys with backpacks that creep up on our streets.You say I'm racist, I think I'm wise.And as for the activities many groups prefer-I still say most people prefer their own sort of stuff.
                              Although I would have to defend you on some of the last part of this, the first part in defending Hitler is just insane.

                              First off, dark hair is not common in the so called "Caucasian race", not even in Southern Europe. Black hair is very rare. In the past there were three considered types of the "white" race. Alpine (short, brown hair, round skull), Northern European-Nordic (Tall, Blonde Hair, long skull) and Southern European-Middle Eastern (Short, darker hair, long skull) but there are variations all over the place and probably was that way from the beginning.

                              Fact is there is no "white" race and never has been.

                              What is dangerous and scary is like the German European trying to revise History to find a identity at the total cost of others. Your not a racist, your a elitist, who like the Totalitarian governments of the past (i.e. Stalin Communism/Hitler Fascism) is a dangerous thing. I hate to say it but really, your sounding like a "White" wannabe.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I guess I wannabe White because I am White(but I can't get any confirmation of their origins or homeland),but I wish they were defined more specifically then they are today,where their looks are placed in context to their existance.Most Europeans are white ,from what I've been hearing,but they aren't identical ,that's why there are haplogroups.I forgot,what did you say you were? There's nothing wrong with having multiple ancestries,except that you probably don't feel too much of anything for anyone.But even Native A. Indians come in several haplogroup types ,so you must understand I'm trying to define exactly what I have here.You said Europeans don't have dark hair,well the Queen of England does,Prince Charles does,Hitler did,his parents did.WonderWoman does,and many bleached Blondes do,but I think their DNA makeup can prove their hair textures are European in origin,not Chinese or Indian.And every true Euro Mediterranean has Black and piratey looking hair,but they are in the Euro haplogroup classification for Mediterrn...,so yes i've seen lot of Euros with Blk.or dark hair,and usually their eyes are blue(northerners),another trait most foreigns don't have.
                                Last edited by Jambalaia32; 11 April 2006, 09:04 AM.

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