DNA and Creationism

[BenTurin Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close BenTurin]

Here is something I have been thinking about. For those of us who take the biblical genealogies literally there are only 40 or so generations from Adam till King David, and then say another 150 generations until today? So how in the world did all these Haplogroups and subclades develop? It seems to me that the only possible answer (if you accept the biblical genealogy) is that at some point in history G-d caused the major branches to form (and maybe even many subclades) on an accelerated timeline. So I was wondering when that point in time might have been and the Tower of Babel story came to mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this.

[darroll Member Find all posts View Profile Close darroll]

Someone rolled a digit when they translated the bible.
Man has been on this earth for about a million years.

[BenTurin Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close BenTurin]

Someone rolled a digit when they translated the bible.
Man has been on this earth for about a million years.

Hu Darroll,

I respect your opinion, however, this question was directed towards those of use who disagree with your belief.

Ben

[Zaru FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close Zaru]

Hu Darroll,

I respect your opinion, however, this question was directed towards those of use who disagree with your belief.

Ben

Ben,

It is a scientific fact that homo sapiens have been on this earth for longer than what the bible provides. According to the calculations that you have enlisted in your original post, biblical Adam would be 3,800 years old (approximately) and this is based on the current scientific calculation of 20 years per generation. L21 is roughly the same age as biblical Adam.

I am deeply interested in the comparisons between religious constructs and science as there is some symmetry but dating is a great concern.

[Taz85 FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close Taz85]

Ben,

It is a scientific fact that homo sapiens have been on this earth for longer than what the bible provides. According to the calculations that you have enlisted in your original post, biblical Adam would be 3,800 years old (approximately) and this is based on the current scientific calculation of 20 years per generation. L21 is roughly the same age as biblical Adam.

I am deeply interested in the comparisons between religious constructs and science as there is some symmetry but dating is a great concern.

It's your opinion that It's a scientific fact. 90+% of the world's population does not agree with scientific "facts" when it comes to the age of humans and the age of this planet. According to the Bible Adam would be 6000 years old. A biblical generation is not 20 years, it's 70.

[Lklundin FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close Lklundin]

I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this.

My thoughts on this:

Creationism is a case of mass delusion.

Remember: You have the right to your own opinion, but you do not have the right to your own facts.

[fbirder FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close fbirder]

I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this.

It was all done by the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

[Guest Close RicardoM]

It's your opinion that It's a scientific fact. 90+% of the world's population does not agree with scientific "facts" when it comes to the age of humans and the age of this planet. According to the Bible Adam would be 6000 years old. A biblical generation is not 20 years, it's 70.

They have found pottery in China that is 18,000 years old, tools in the Americas that are 14,000 years old, and artwork in South Africa that is 70,000 years old. There are vast amounts of evidence for early man older than 6000 years on every continent except Antarctica.

[gtc FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close gtc]

Here we go.

It's no wonder that many boards ban discussion of politics and religion.

[Taz85 FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close Taz85]

They have found pottery in China that is 18,000 years old, tools in the Americas that are 14,000 years old, and artwork in South Africa that is 70,000 years old. There are vast amounts of evidence for early man older than 6000 years on every continent except Antarctica.

Yet they have found fossils of all ages throughout the fossil layers. Scientific dates mean 0. Im not going to continue talking about it.

[fbirder FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close fbirder]

Yet they have found fossils of all ages throughout the fossil layers.

No, they haven't. They've only found humanoid fossils in the uppermost, younger layers. If, as some fairy tales would have us believe, humans had existed since the beginning of the Earth then you would expect to find human fossils rough out the layers.

[vinnie FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close vinnie]

Ben asked a question to those in this forum who may share his beliefs and then he politely reiterated his request. How about everyone respecting his right to believe what he does and to have a conversation with others who share similar beliefs? For those who don't share his beliefs, most posts in most genetic genealogy forums presuppose yours, so why not just give it a rest for once?

[Taz85 FTDNA Customer Find all posts View Profile Close Taz85]

ben asked a question to those in this forum who may share his beliefs and then he politely reiterated his request. How about everyone respecting his right to believe what he does and to have a conversation with others who share similar beliefs? For those who don't share his beliefs, most posts in most genetic genealogy forums presuppose yours, so why not just give it a rest for once?

bh

[LindaT Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close LindaT]

Here is something I have been thinking about. For those of us who take the biblical genealogies literally there are only 40 or so generations from Adam till King David, and then say another 150 generations until today? So how in the world did all these Haplogroups and subclades develop? It seems to me that the only possible answer (if you accept the biblical genealogy) is that at some point in history G-d caused the major branches to form (and maybe even many subclades) on an accelerated timeline. So I was wondering when that point in time might have been and the Tower of Babel story came to mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

I would be interested to hear you thoughts on this.

I don't subscribe to the ideal of literal biblical truth but I'm always up for a thought experiment.

One possibility would be that mutation rates were significantly higher than they are today. To the best of my knowledge there is no evidence to suggest that was the case.

Another possibility would be that we were created with all this genetic diversity already programmed in place. That would imply a sort of pre-destinated set of mutations. The mechanism how that could be accomplished is left as an exercise to the reader.

Neither of those seem very likely. They are inconsistent with other evidence and simpler explanations seem to fit the data better.

[BenTurin Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close BenTurin]

I don't subscribe to the ideal of literal biblical truth but I'm always up for a thought experiment.

Another possibility would be that we were created with all this genetic diversity already programmed in place. That would imply a sort of pre-destinated set of mutations. The mechanism how that could be accomplished is left as an exercise to the reader.
.

Thanks Linda for your thoughts. In reading articles about the CMH (Cohen Modal Haplotype) I found it interesting that the STR values are very similar in the J1 and J2 Cohanim. This seems to suggest the possibility of the Clade split (J1 and J2) somehow coming after the strs. To take this approach would probably mean assuming a clade split amongst multiple people and not just one founder.