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Scots Irish ?

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  • #16
    Most of the "so called" Irish immigration before the potato famine of about 1845 actually consisted of the Scots-Irish (aka Ulster Scots). Many were Presbyterians with lots of Scottish ancestry. They technically came from Ireland & so were identified as Irish when they arrived in America.

    Timothy Peterman

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    • #17
      Keep in mind

      I have a line in my tree that the paper trail is weak so a number of researchers have published what they think the line is with out any proof. It has made such a mess that the truth will probably never be found.

      With the explosion of the interest in Genealogy research it is going to get worst because more lazy researchers wanting to make things fit into what they want to believe is going to happen. Those who say my grandmother, grandfather, aunt, or uncle said this and can't or want dell with the truth are going to make searching for the truth harder especially if they decide they want to publish a book which other will take as being the truth because its in a book.

      The question asked by the OP is a good one. People need to know the answer to the question.

      Another answer source found at Rootweb

      The Term: Scotch-Irish
      Who are the Scotch-Irish, and what does the term mean?


      "The term "Scotch-Irish" is an Americanism, generally unknown in Scotland and Ireland, and rarely used by British historians. In American usage, it refers to people of Scottish descent who, having lived for a time in the north of Ireland, migrated in considerable numbers to the American colonies in the eighteenth century." The Scotch-Irish, A Social History, pg. i - James G. Leyburn.

      The "plantation" of Ulster, in northern Ireland, with Scottish immigrants, took place from roughly 1606 through 1700. The "Great Migration" of Scotch-Irish to America took place from 1717 through 1776. An estimated 200-250,000 Scotch-Irish migrated to America during this period. The period of the "Great Migration" of Scotch-Irish took place at approximately the same time as the German Palatine migration.

      It is believed that, at the time of the Revolution, they comprised 10-15% of the population of the United States. Their negative feelings toward England played no small part in the emotion of the "stew" that led to the American Revolution.

      Although there is evidence of the use of this term, or others, (Ulster Irish, Northern Irish, Irish Presbyterians) to differentiate the Scotch/Irish immigrants from other citizens of America, it is believed to have generally fallen into non-use by the 1840's, wherever it had been used. The use of the term "Irish" in the United States up to that time usually meant Scotch-Irish, as the Catholic Irish simply had not been a major immigrating force until that time.

      All that changed, however, with the potato famine and the resulting crunch of the greatest immigration America has ever experienced, from the southern regions of Ireland. An estimated 2 million Irishmen, mostly Catholic, and mostly from the southern parts of Ireland, immigrated to America during the period 1846-1856. They were poor. They congregated in the cities in which they landed in ghetto clusters. They were Catholic. They would work for next to nothing while native born American workers saw jobs threatened and the decline of value in their own labor. The Irish, as many new classes of immigrants are in a new country, were not looked on favorably by the general population.

      This caused a renewal in the resident population of Scotch-Irish Americans to identify themselves in such a manner that they would not be thrown in the same "class" of citizenry as the new, Catholic, Irish immigrants. Thus, a renewal in the use of the term Scotch-Irish.

      It is a useful term to the family historian as the Scotch-Irish people are definitely a different class of immigrant than the southern, Catholic Irish; nor, can they be thrown in the same pot as their Scottish brethren. "..the Scots who lived in Ulster before they came to America simply were not, in background, religion, and many other aspects of culture, identical with the Irish of the southern provinces of Leinster, Munster, and Connaught; neither were they, after many decades, any longer identical with the people of Scotland." The Scotch-Irish, A Social History, pg. 333 - James G. Leyburn.

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      • #18
        And then there were the Hatfields and the McCoys. I watched that 3-part series on the History Channel. I read somewhere that it was a transferring of feuds from the border region between Scotland and England; the Hatfields on the English side, and the McCoys on the Scotland side. I noticed three people in my Family Finder matches have a connection to one of them, but I'm not telling which one.

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        • #19
          My MIL's side includes Scots-Irish (Johnston) but they arrived in Western PA between 1837 and 1841. Parents born in Ireland (ca. 1800), eldest son born in Scotland (1826), next three kids born in Ireland (1829, 1831, 1835), then Scotland (1837) and the youngest born in PA in 1841.

          A few decades later the whole clan picks up and moves to Coshocton, OH.

          I really need to do some research on what would have prompted those moves.

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          • #20
            Another explanation of why a Scottish person may show up as genetically Irish...would be.. that many of them actually "Are" genetically Irish..as the the Kingdom of Scotland owes its origins/creation to the Irish Gaels(aka Scoti) that left Ulster and invaded Pictish lands in what is now Scotland starting around the 5th century..

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            • #21
              Another explanation of why a Scottish person may show up as genetically Irish...would be.. that many of them actually "Are" genetically Irish..
              Well that explanation makes the most sense to me.
              This was French Canada in 1847 ( or so).He is an orphan with two younger sisters who were given to a Scot family to be raised. He is adopted by a French couple but keeps his given name . Later in life he begins using a French version . Laurence Moore to Laurent Maure.
              He dies young ( 52) a crime victim in Quebec .
              His bilingual daughter , my grandmother , claims Scottish in a border crossing
              record . The bulk of non French matches on family finder and relative finder are Irish.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                And then there were the Hatfields and the McCoys. I watched that 3-part series on the History Channel. I read somewhere that it was a transferring of feuds from the border region between Scotland and England; the Hatfields on the English side, and the McCoys on the Scotland side. I noticed three people in my Family Finder matches have a connection to one of them, but I'm not telling which one.
                In that Hatfield and McCoy program (I'm sure it will be repeated on the History Channel in the future), there was a friend of the main Hatfield character who was called "Wall". At one point his whole name was given, and "Wall" was his middle name. What we're seeing here is his mother's surname. I have Wall connected to my maternal tree, although at this point not in a direct line. But I still don't know the surname of my earliest known female ancestress in NC. So the jury is still out on how close the Wall lineage is to mine.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                  In that Hatfield and McCoy program (I'm sure it will be repeated on the History Channel in the future), there was a friend of the main Hatfield character who was called "Wall". At one point his whole name was given, and "Wall" was his middle name. What we're seeing here is his mother's surname. I have Wall connected to my maternal tree, although at this point not in a direct line. But I still don't know the surname of my earliest known female ancestress in NC. So the jury is still out on how close the Wall lineage is to mine.
                  Let me entertain you all a bit more with this line of thought. A Wall was owner/operator of the strategic ferry across the Pee Dee River between Anson County and the town of Rockingham in Richmond County, NC. My Jacob Falconbury used that ferry. Now what were to happen if said Wall had a daughter about the right age? Hmm...? (That probably didn't happen that way, but could have).

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                  • #24
                    Blood of the Isles by Bryan Sykes, explains the way that the Irish and scots are one and the same. Unles you are talking about people from the Hebrides.

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                    • #25
                      Let's go back to the Hatfields and McCoys. Lately I've been probing around in the Powell trees, since it looks suspiciously matching with names and dates (looking for my maternal ancestors). And today I stumbled onto an Archibald McCoy 1732-1810. Hmm... But I haven't seen McCoy in FF matches that show their connected names.

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                      • #26
                        One of my dna cousins here has Hatfield & McCoy on his surname list. I haven't asked him if they are... you know.

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                        • #27
                          Well, I did it again. I jumped to a new tree for my maternal line. This one has a lot of Charitys sprinkled over the generations. So I don't have to claim her name was an alias. It's probably also erroneous, since I do have Hatfield surnames with a few FF matches. The problem with this tree (Charity Wade and on back to tidewater Virginia) is that it points to a French Huguenot origin (via England first). Hmm... But they do seem to mix it up with Anglos.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                            Well, I did it again. I jumped to a new tree for my maternal line. This one has a lot of Charitys sprinkled over the generations. So I don't have to claim her name was an alias. It's probably also erroneous, since I do have Hatfield surnames with a few FF matches. The problem with this tree (Charity Wade and on back to tidewater Virginia) is that it points to a French Huguenot origin (via England first). Hmm... But they do seem to mix it up with Anglos.
                            Well, forget that one. She was born too early, and married someone else not in my tree. I sure wish an expert would come to my rescue.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PDHOTLEN View Post
                              Well, forget that one. She was born too early, and married someone else not in my tree. I sure wish an expert would come to my rescue.
                              Now I'm back to Baker as her (earliest known female ancestress) last name. I was at this point months or years ago.

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                              • #30
                                Scots Irish?

                                I can readily identify with the desire to reconcile family stories.
                                In my case, I believed myself to be Scottish based on my family stories, but at an advanced age, all of my FTDNA Y-DNA matches are
                                Irish and primarily associated with the Maguire Clan of Fermanagh.

                                This is true both at all levels of STR testing from 25 markers thru
                                111 markers and confirmed by deep subclade testing. Among the Maguire
                                Surname group, we also have a Buchanan and a Johnston. Fred Johnston's great grandfather died in southern Scotland and he searched
                                vainly among the two Scottish clans Johnston. His DNA is also Maguire.

                                William Buchanan has a book in which a McCauley (Maguire) of Ardincaple, Scotland, bequeathed an estate in Fermanagh in 1595, to
                                William Buchanan "of me ain' blud". There is also a McNeill of Barra
                                who has Maguire DNA, but then, the McNeills are descended from McNeils
                                in Co. Fermangh. I have also read all of the previous posts to this
                                thread and found nothing that I don't agee with.

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