Need help understanding yDNA match to different surname

[migoblu]

After taking the 67 yDNA test here at FTDNA, I found I had only one yDNA match for my Hale surname, a know cousin. However, I did have another match with a surname of Akers. I've contacted the person with the Akers surname and was told they think they do have some Hale in their family tree, but not sure how we could be such a close match as we are.

Yesterday, I discovered that my 5th great grandfather (Nicholas Haile IV) was married to Ruth Acre. Ruth's father was - Simon Akers (my 6th great grandfather). Is this where my Hale yDNA makes the match with the Akers surname? How is this possible? I thought that I would only get yDNA from my father, his father, his father's father, etc.

Another, interesting/strange situation is I am also related to the same Nicholas Haile through the father's mother (my grandmother), the Cooper line. In the Cooper line, Nicholas Hale IV is reported to be my 9th grand uncle. I have the right surnames and people, but I might be missing a generation, or two. Even missing a generation, how would I have the close yDNA match to the Akers?

Thanks for any help.

John Hale

[Jim Barrett]

Yesterday, I discovered that my 5th great grandfather (Nicholas Haile IV) was married to Ruth Acre. Ruth's father was - Simon Akers (my 6th great grandfather). Is this where my Hale yDNA makes the match with the Akers surname? How is this possible? I thought that I would only get yDNA from my father, his father, his father's father, etc.

Thanks for any help. John Hale

John, you are 100% correct. Your Y-DNA comes from your paternal line only.

You only mention two 67 marker matches. Did you have others? What about your 37 marker matches who haven't tested to 67 markers?

You might want to try to find a 3rd or 4th cousin from your Hale family and have them tested to 67 markers. With the two families living in the same area so long ago there is no way to learn what might have happened to cause a possible sharing of Y-DNA. Unknown adoptions or name changes are possible.

[migoblu]

John, you are 100% correct. Your Y-DNA comes from your paternal line only.

You only mention two 67 marker matches. Did you have others? What about your 37 marker matches who haven't tested to 67 markers?

You might want to try to find a 3rd or 4th cousin from your Hale family and have them tested to 67 markers. With the two families living in the same area so long ago there is no way to learn what might have happened to cause a possible sharing of Y-DNA. Unknown adoptions or name changes are possible.

Thanks for your reply Jim. Ive attached my matches as reported by FTDNA, plus the Ancestral Origins as reported by FTDNA. Please understand that I don't really comprehend these matches. Do I match if I have 1, 2, or 3 step mutation? So, do I match anyone with the mutations that are different than 0? On the Ancestral Origins file do I match any of these? According to FTDNA the 25, 37, and 67 Marker matches are Mr. Martin Franklin Aker.

John Hale

[tomcat]

Yesterday, I discovered that my 5th great grandfather (Nicholas Haile IV) was married to Ruth Acre. Ruth's father was - Simon Akers (my 6th great grandfather). Is this where my Hale yDNA makes the match with the Akers surname? How is this possible? I thought that I would only get yDNA from my father, his father, his father's father, etc.

Do the other Akers you match have a connection to Ruth and/or Simon?

The easiest explanation is that an Akers became a Hale or a Hale became an Akers and a Cooper became a Hale or a Hale became a Cooper. Considering the acknowledged intermarriage between the Hale, Ackers and Cooper families, one or more interfamily adoptions may have occurred. Is there a common origin, geography or migration trail for these three families?

Others are better qualified to respond on this matter, but an exact 67 marker match should be quite reliable and, depending on the mutability of the markers on which you differ, a few marker differences would not be disqualifying.

[migoblu]

Do the other Akers you match have a connection to Ruth and/or Simon?

The easiest explanation is that an Akers became a Hale or a Hale became an Akers and a Cooper became a Hale or a Hale became a Cooper. Considering the acknowledged intermarriage between the Hale, Ackers and Cooper families, one or more interfamily adoptions may have occurred. Is there a common origin, geography or migration trail for these three families?

Others are better qualified to respond on this matter, but an exact 67 marker match should be quite reliable and, depending on the mutability of the markers on which you differ, a few marker differences would not be disqualifying.

I don't know if Ruth or Simon are related to my Aker yDNA match, I'm waiting for a reply to my inquiry.

The Haile's, Hale's, and Aker's are all from VA. The Cooper's are from KY and my Hale father, grandfather, and great grandfather were born in KY. My great great grandfather was born in VA and I think his father is Benjamin Hale who was born in VA. The connection with the Cooper's to the Haile's is through a daughter of one of the Haile's.

I tried to attach files from FTDNA, but I seethey didn't attach, so I'll try to attach them again. Thanks for any help.

[tomcat]

The Haile's, Hale's, and Aker's are all from VA. The Cooper's are from KY and my Hale father, grandfather, and great grandfather were born in KY. My great great grandfather was born in VA and I think his father is Benjamin Hale who was born in VA. The connection with the Cooper's to the Haile's is through a daughter of one of the Haile's.

If you can't establish a New World connection between Hale, Ackers and Cooper then you have to consider a common root in the Old World.

Have you posted your father's Y on all available websites?

[migoblu]

If you can't establish a New World connection between Hale, Ackers and Cooper then you have to consider a common root in the Old World.

Have you posted your father's Y on all available websites?

Just at ySearch. Do you know of any other websites?

[tomcat]

Ancestry.com, Sorensen MGF once accepted results as did another lab, Gedmatch may. If you post a query in Y DNA forum others may know of all the options.

[migoblu]

Ancestry.com, Sorensen MGF once accepted results as did another lab, Gedmatch may. If you post a query in Y DNA forum others may know of all the options.

This is the Hale DNA Project at FTDNA:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/hale/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

The Kit Numbers I'm interested in seeing if I match are: 18817, 175084, 165363, 185382, 41978, 31587, 32076, and 110168. My Kit number is 212709.

Is there a way at FTNA to make a comparison between Kit Numbers? I there is I haven't found it.

Thanks for all your help, Tom.

John

[Stevo]

This is the Hale DNA Project at FTDNA:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/hale/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

The Kit Numbers I'm interested in seeing if I match are: 18817, 175084, 165363, 185382, 41978, 31587, 32076, and 110168. My Kit number is 212709.

Is there a way at FTNA to make a comparison between Kit Numbers? I there is I haven't found it.

Thanks for all your help, Tom.

John

Just look down the columns at the markers and count the differences. I would say you do not match any of the kit numbers you listed above. There are just too many differences at 67 markers.

Comparing them would be easier if you knew their Ysearch entries, if they and you all have Ysearch entries.

My guess is that your Nicholas Haile IV and Ruth Acre (i.e., Akers) took in a male child who was a relative of Ruth's, that is, an Akers. He may have been the son of one of Ruth's brothers. Probably that brother and his wife died, so Ruth and Nicholas took in one of their sons, who would have been Ruth's nephew. Eventually, that little boy was given the Haile/Hale surname, but that wouldn't change his Akers y-dna.

I have seen instances of the same thing in my own family tree, although not on my y-dna line. My maternal grandmother's parents died when my grandmother and her siblings were still quite young. My grandmother and one of her brothers went to live with an uncle on their mother's side of the family. The youngest brother went to live with an aunt on their father's side. The youngest brother, who was born Buell Morris, eventually became "Jack Waddle" (his aunt's husband was a Waddle) and was known by that name the rest of his life.

[migoblu]

Just look down the columns at the markers and count the differences. I would say you do not match any of the kit numbers you listed above. There are just too many differences at 67 markers.

Comparing them would be easier if you knew their Ysearch entries, if they and you all have Ysearch entries.

My guess is that your Nicholas Haile IV and Ruth Acre (i.e., Akers) took in a male child who was a relative of Ruth's, that is, an Akers. He may have been the son of one of Ruth's brothers. Probably that brother and his wife died, so Ruth and Nicholas took in one of their sons, who would have been Ruth's nephew. Eventually, that little boy was given the Haile/Hale surname, but that wouldn't change his Akers y-dna.

I have seen instances of the same thing in my own family tree, although not on my y-dna line. My maternal grandmother's parents died when my grandmother and her siblings were still quite young. My grandmother and one of her brothers went to live with an uncle on their mother's side of the family. The youngest brother went to live with an aunt on their father's side. The youngest brother, who was born Buell Morris, eventually became "Jack Waddle" (his aunt's husband was a Waddle) and was known by that name the rest of his life.

Thanks for your reply, Stevo.

Wow, this is very confusing. I do match a known Hale cousin at the Hale DNA Project, their Kit Number is 161033. They also match the Akers: 0 at 12 and 25 Markers, at 37 I'm 2 off from Akers and 3 off from my known cousin. So, dos this mean that I'm only related to the Nicholas Hale/Haile line through my grandmother's Cooper line and not also related through my Hale line?

John

[Stevo]

I wouldn't be able to answer your question about related lines without a lot more information, but has your Akers match gone to 67 markers? He would need to do that for you to be sure the match is really close. Two off at 37 markers can go to a lot more at 67. Of course, it could also end up being a 65/67 match, which would really be something.

If your Hale cousin is a first cousin, then he is from the same y-dna line as you and could be an Akers in his y-dna, as well.

[migoblu]

I wouldn't be able to answer your question about related lines without a lot more information, but has your Akers match gone to 67 markers? He would need to do that for you to be sure the match is really close. Two off at 37 markers can go to a lot more at 67. Of course, it could also end up being a 65/67 match, which would really be something.

If your Hale cousin is a first cousin, then he is from the same y-dna line as you and could be an Akers in his y-dna, as well.

Thanks for all your help, Stevo.

At 67 Markers, I am 3 Steps from Akers. Would this make us 64/67, and what would this mean? Sorry, if I sound dumb, but this is new and very confusing to me. Thanks for all your help.

John