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  • The Peloponnesian War

    Could The Sicani be related to The Aurignacian Culture - found in Iberia near the river Sicanus in Spain?

    If so, Hg1 R1b R1b3 R-M269 members from Sicily - could well be related to earliest settlers The Sicani. This in a sense makes us native to the island. We could very well be native Sicilians - Pre-Historic natives.


    "The Sicaneans were reputed to be the first inhabitants of Sicily,
    they built little Villages or Towns upon hills, and every Town had
    its own King; and by this means they spread over the country,
    before they formed themselves into larger governments with a
    common King: Philistus [216] saith that they were transplanted
    into Sicily from the River Sicanus in Spain; and Dionysius [217],
    that they were a Spanish people who fled from the Ligures in Italy;
    he means the Ligures [218] who opposed Hercules when he
    returned from his expedition against Geryon in Spain, and
    endeavoured to pass the Alps out of Gaul into Italy. Hercules that
    year got into Italy, and made some conquests there, and founded
    the city Croton; and [219] after winter, upon the arrival of his fleet
    from Erythra in Spain, sailed to Sicily, and there left the Sicani: for
    it was his custom to recruit his army with conquered people, and
    after they had assisted him in making new conquests to reward
    them with new seats: this was the Egyptian Hercules, who had a
    potent fleet, and in the days of Solomon sailed to the Straits, and
    according to his custom set up pillars there, and conquered
    Geryon, and returned back by Italy and Sicily to Egypt, and was by
    the ancient Gauls called Ogmius, and by Egyptians [220] Nilus: for
    Erythra and the country of Geryon were without the Straits.
    Dionysius [221] represents this Hercules contemporary to
    Evander."

    .... The Sicanians appear to have been the next settlers, although
    they pretend to have been the first of all and aborigines; but the
    facts show that they were Iberians, driven by the Ligurians from
    the river Sicanus in Iberia. It was from them that the island, before
    called Trinacria, took its name of Sicania, and to the present day
    they inhabit the west of Sicily....

    THUCYDIDES, HISTORY OF THE PELOPONNESIAN WARS (VOL.II - BOOK VI):
    "It [Sicily] was inhabited in old time, thus; and these were the
    nations that held it. Cyclopes and Læstrigones. The most ancient
    inhabitants in a part thereof, are said to have been the Cyclopes
    and Læstrigones: of whose stock, and whence they came or to
    what place they removed, I have nothing to say. Let that suffice
    which the poets have spoken, and which every particular man hath
    learned of them. Sicanians.After them, the first that appear to have
    dwelt therein, are the Sicanians, as they say themselves; nay,
    before the other, as being the natural breed of the island. But the
    truth is, they were Iberians; and driven away by the Ligyans
    [Ligurians] from the banks of Sicanus [Júcar River in Valencia], a
    river on which they were seated in Iberia. Sicania, Trinacria. And
    the island from them came to be called Sicania, which was before
    Trinacria. And these [two] inhabit yet in the western parts of Sicily.
    Trojans. After the taking of Ilium certain Trojans, escaping the
    hands of the Grecians, landed with small boats in Sicily: and
    having planted themselves on the borders of the Sicanians, both
    the nations in one were called Elymi; and their cities were Eryx
    and Egesta. Hard by these came and dwelled also certain
    Phoceans, who coming from Troy, were by tempest carried first
    into Afric, and thence into Sicily. Siculi. But the Siculi passed out
    of Italy, (for there they inhabited), flying from the Opici [Oscans],
    having, as is most likely and as it is reported, observed the strait,
    and with a fore wind gotten over in boats which they made
    suddenly on the occasion, or perhaps by some other means. [...]
    There is at this day a people in Italy called Siculi."

    http://www.lhhpaleo.religionstatisti...%20italia.html

    The Sicanians appear to have succeeded these early races,
    although according to their own account they were still older; for
    they profess to have been children of the soil. But the fact proves
    to be that they were Iberians, and were driven from the river
    Sicanus in Iberia by the Ligurians. Sicily, which was originally
    called Trinacria, received from them the name Sicania. To this day
    the Sicanians inhabit the western parts of the island. (3) After the
    capture of Troy, some Trojans who had escaped from the
    Achaeans came in ships to Sicily; they settled near the Sicanians,
    and took the common name of Elymi but had two separate cities,
    Eryx and Egesta THUCYDIDES

    Comment


    • Are the three Royal sons of Judah - R1b3?

      Are the three Royal sons of Judah - R1b3?

      Did the male line of Zarah-Judah in Ireland - come from Judah and then into Spain?

      This would mean: that the male line of Zarah-Judah is R1b3 that populated Europe. The same male line that populated Sicily.

      The male line of Pharez-Judah had failed.

      The daughter of Zedekiah, the last king in Jerusalem, was united to the male line of Zarah-Judah in Ireland - which is Exalted.

      The male line of Shelah-Judah was exalted.

      The present House of Windsor has over it the combined line of Zarah-Pharez.

      I have a relationship with The present House of Windsor -

      Alberto Azzo (Azo) II (Marchese) of ESTE - Alberto Azzo I of LIGURIA (970? - 1029?) - Oberto Obizzo (I; II; Marquis) of ITALY - Obert I (Marquis) of ITALY (912? - 975) - Adalbert III di LUCCA (Margrave) of TUSCANY - Gui (Guido) de LUCCA - Adalbert II (Margrave) de TUSCANY (? - 915) - Rothilda (Rohaut Anonsura) di SPOLETO (848? - 884+) - Gui (II; Duke) di SPOLETO - Gui (Guido) (I; II; Margrave) di SPOLETO (? - 858?) - Charlemagne of the FRANKS

      This could well be a combined male line of Zarah-Pharez.

      Comment


      • Origin of the Royal male bloodline: H1 R1b R1b3 R-M269 - Royalty

        Origin of the Royal male bloodline: H1 R1b R1b3 R-M269 - Royalty

        The Zarah line is ruling all across the northern Mediterranean. By this time they've got colonies in Spain, Ireland, and Britain. But the "throne of David" is not in those places. It is in Jerusalem. And the male bloodline has been cut! But not the FEMALE. God allowed the daughters to inherit when no male heirs were available. So Jeremiah takes the King's two daughters, and leaves for Ireland. He drops off one daughter in Spain and then marries the Pharez-Judah daughter of Zedekiah to the Zarah-Judah High King of Ireland. This final move sets things straight; the way God outlined them. Zarah is back on top. The "throne" is preserved. The resting place for Israel is being prepared for the arrival of the ten tribes as they begin to migrate across europe.

        THE MEETING PLACE OF JUDAH: ZARAH -- PHAREZ

        God had to get the "Isles afar off" ready for the House Israel, so He sent two Houses of Zarah-Judah; the Trojans to England and the Milesians to Ireland. Brutus, the grandson of the Trojan King Aeneas, rounded up hundreds of defeated rebels after the seige of Troy, and made his way to Spain where some of his countrymen had previously migrated. Many of these compatriots sailed with Brutus as he went to England. He landed there in 1103 BC, moved inland somewhat until coming to a likely spot for a settlement. He gave this town the name of New Troy. This was later to become the capitol of the reconstituted tribe of Ephraim, and the final resting place of the Davidic Throne. London. God was also preparing this land for the influx of Israelites which started some 500 years later.

        Some centuries later, God had replaced those Spanish Zarahite Trojans with their cousins the Zarahite Milesians. After living for some time in Spain, some of the princes struck out to establish new kingdoms in Ireland. To do this they had to conquer their cousins of the tribe of Dan; the Tuatha de Dannan. After a family squabble that left only one of the original three brothers who came to Ireland, Eochaidh (Yo-kee) The Heremon (king) assumed the throne of Ard-Righ, High King. This all happened around 600 BC. Eochaidh was well in place to receive the bloodline of the Davidic line of Pharez-Judah.

        Within three years of the final fall of Jerusalem, God's Trustee of the Davidic Throne, arrives in Ireland with his scribe Simon Brug, a curious collection of ancient relics, which include a harp, a large chest, a three hundred pound stone, and more. Beside one other in the party, the band of four was rounded out by the daughter of the blinded, imprisoned King of Judah, Zedekiah.

        It wasn't enough for God to keep the promise that Judah would supply the rulers of the Tribes of Israel. If that were the case, then God could have quit right there and had a day off. He would have had some Zarah-Judah kings ready for the Lost Tribe's arrival starting around 500 BC. But He'd made that promise to David. So David's bloodline had to be in the mix, too. That's why He had to draft Jeremiah to "plant" that bloodline in the future land of Israel. God's plan for Israel had been side-tracked. With the marriage of Zarah-Judah Eochaidh to David-Pharez-Judah Tea Tephi, things were again set right according to God's Plan, Promise and Prophecy:

        1-Judah would have the sceptre; Gen 49:10

        2-David would have his "man on the throne;" II Sam 7:16

        3-Israel would assume it's new land, II Sam 7:10, to "renew" it's strength, Is 41:1, for the spreading of Christianity.

        4-The fulfillment of a multitude of prophecies by Ezekiel, Isaiah, Hosea, and others.

        Jeremiah even set the future "priesthood" of the church in motion when he established Colleges in Ireland. You could say the he was the author of our Constitution. Besides schools, he's the great Law-Giver of Ireland. It's Jeremiah's Law that became Irish Common Law, then British Common Law, which processed through our Pilgrims as the Mayflower Compact, and became our Constitution. Jeremiah also instituted the Three Great Faires of Ireland. Do you suppose that these political/business gatherings fell approximately at the same times as Passover, Pentacost, and Tabernacles? Hmmm.

        Knowledge is Power. God knows everything, hence is All Powerful. Neat.

        Who have been the two most powerful nations on earth, excluding that Johnny Come Lately the USSR? The United States, as a single nation. England as an Imperial nation. These two countries controlled most of the world's information. They are the ones who "pushed the people's to the end's of the earth." They have for 200 years controlled and contained most of the world's knowledge.

        The point I make is that we're well educated people, we Americans and British. That condition is no accident of history. It's a move on God's part. 2500 years ago God sent Jeremiah to Ireland to establish the educational system that would weather the Satanic Ignorance of the Dark Ages, and provide a foundation for our modern level of education. Who still has the best schools today? The Irish.

        Or perhaps you think the various conquerors and emperors of history, and even the mighty Roman Empire itself, had a blind-fit and never knew that Ireland was there. The Romans went to England and spent many resources to maintain a hold in England. They never could bring the whole country in line, as Isaiah predited, Is 54:17; they had to give up and build walls. They wouldn't have had near the trouble with Ireland.

        Ireland is a VERY special place. It's the Cradle of the Spiritual and State governments of modern Israel.

        http://asis.com/~stag/royalty.html#Ireland

        Comment


        • Religion, geopolitics and genetic genealogy

          Originally posted by johnraciti
          Origin of the Royal male bloodline: H1 R1b R1b3 R-M269 - Royalty

          Who have been the two most powerful nations on earth, excluding that Johnny Come Lately the USSR? The United States, as a single nation. England as an Imperial nation. These two countries controlled most of the world's information. They are the ones who "pushed the people's to the end's of the earth." They have for 200 years controlled and contained most of the world's knowledge.

          The point I make is that we're well educated people, we Americans and British. That condition is no accident of history. It's a move on God's part. 2500 years ago God sent Jeremiah to Ireland to establish the educational system that would weather the Satanic Ignorance of the Dark Ages, and provide a foundation for our modern level of education. Who still has the best schools today? The Irish.
          John,

          I think it's very dangerous when anyone tries to extrapolate haplogroups to nations and religions, especially when broad claims are made as to which nation or people was chosen by God or which nations or ethnic groups are the natural leaders of the world or which haplogroups are the bloodline of the aristocrats and kings who have led civilizations. I say this whether the assertion is made that the aristocrats of Europe were all R1a (which assertion has been made) or that R1b is the bloodline of the chosen people of Israel and through them the Celts and ultimately the British and American nations.

          I prefer to emphasize the diversity of humanity and how different ethnic groups and the haplogroups they belong to have contributed to human progress and the culture of different nations. This is why I'm proud of my Sicilian heritage and the role that different religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) and the role of different ethnic groups (Greeks, Italians, Arabs, yes even Normans) have played in its history. I can't forget the irony that my ancestral village of Mezzojuso was founded by the Muslim Arab rulers of Sicily about 1000 years ago, yet for the last 500 years probably half or more of the residents of Mezzojuso were Albanians who fled from the Muslim Ottoman takeover of the Balkans and their descendants.

          Religious and ethnic strife goes on and yet somehow the world survives and even goes forward. I don't think we should use genetic genealogy and population genetics to help the forces who promote division and strife. Of course, if I'm wrong about the question of chosen people and ethnic groups/nations that are meant to rule, I'm probably going to burn in hell. I'll take the chance.

          Mike

          Comment


          • How much more delirious supposition will this forum contain? Next thing you know the R1b or some other single haplogroup will be touted as the "Master Haplogroup"....

            Comment


            • Origin of the Royal male bloodline: H1 R1b R1b3 R-M269 - Royalty
              According to all that Bloodline blather, Prince Harry should be J2 or something like that. No? I believe this pretty well sums up the whole charade:

              http://priory-of-sion.com/psp/id84.html
              The ‘Saunière Museum’ was opened in Rennes-le-Château in 1989 and this, it seems, inspired Plantard into making an unsuccessful comeback (the French did not take any notice of this) – a third version of the Prieuré de Sion was launched with a revived series of the journal Vaincre – giving a different false pedigree and different Grand Masters List and alleging that the previous version was all a fake produced by Philippe Toscan du Plantier under the influence of LSD – there was no connection with the Templars or with Godfrey de Bouillon – the Prieuré de Sion was founded in 1681 at Rennes-le-Château by the Grandfather of Marie de Negri d’Ables – and there were secret archives discovered in Barcelona in Spain as well. Plantard was still descended from Dagobert II, but indirectly: the ‘real’ direct descendant was Otto Von Habsburg! The revised list of Grand Masters contained the name of Roger Patrice Pelat whose name was linked to a financial scandal that was being investigated by Judge Thierry Jean-Pierre – the Judge interrogated Plantard who under Oath admitted that everything was made-up. Plantard was let-off with a severe warning and never again revived his Prieuré de Sion activities, living out the rest of his life in seclusion in various addresses at Perpignan, Paris and Barcelona. He died on 3 February 2000 in Paris and his remains were cremated.

              Comment


              • Holy Blood, Holy Grail

                Originally posted by Hetware
                According to all that Bloodline blather, Prince Harry should be J2 or something like that. No? I believe this pretty well sums up the whole charade:


                The Priory of Sion is part of the Holy Blood, Holy Grail cult, discussed in a book of the same name back in the 1990s. There actually is a masonic order named the Priory of Sion that evidently goes back hundreds of years that claims that the Holy Grail of legend does exist and is the bloodline of Jesus Christ. The theory states that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had children and that Mary went to what is now France where Jesus' line continued.

                Of course, the royal bloodlines of the Holy Roman Empire (Hapsburgs) and most of the monarchs of Europe, including the British royal line, according to this theory, are descended from this bloodline. So you see, it's natural and ordained by God that they are meant to rule men. NOT! (I think the 1972 film The Ruling Class (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069198/), which stars Peter O'Toole, may be a black humor look at this theory which is a silly apology for aristocratic rule.)

                The British end of this gets even more elaborate. Read a book by the famous historian Barbara Tuchman, titled The Bible and The Sword, to find out more on this. She assembles the evidence that there has been a strongly held belief in the UK (going back many centuries), especially among elites, that the British people are descended from the people of Israel. She presents the evidence that it was British aristocrats and the British Foreign Office in the 19th century who were the main inspirers and organizers of Zionism. From her book, it's clear that most European Jews in the 19th century had no interest in returning to what's now Israel and that Zionism in its early decades was more of a geopolitical tool of the British and was meant to satisfy some aristocrats who felt some kinship with the concept of Israel, since they thought they were descended from the people of that area. (I am not saying that Israel should not exist - just pointing out that the evidence is there that its foundation served interests of those other than Jews.) This is the kind of tinkering based on plainly wrong theories that causes so much trouble among men and divides them.

                Mike

                Comment


                • The Line Of The Queen Is From Zarah

                  The Line Of The Queen Is From Zarah

                  I agree with Jim on this one.

                  Comment


                  • Could there be a K2 trail that leads to Australia through the Pacific Ocean?

                    Phoenicians landed in Australia some 3500 years ago.

                    Could there be a K2 trail that leads to Australia through the Pacific Ocean?

                    http://phoenicia.org/australia.html

                    http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/australia1.html

                    http://www.british-israel.ca/Phoenician.htm

                    Comment


                    • The "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" thing is so absolutely irrational and retarded that it probably is a grand form of satire literature, an expression of contempt on the part of pseudo-masons directed at the gullible sheeplike masses.

                      Anglo-Israelism/British Zionism is unfortunately a long-standing dangerous and psychotic cult amongst the decadent Anglo-Saxon bourgeoisie, a bizarre ethnic self-esteem delusion and political rationalization mechanism for the alliance between British finance and Jewish finance in their drive toward global imperialism. The real England of the ancient and medieval past knew nothing of this suicidal nonsense.

                      Disraeli and the Empire of the Shopkeepers

                      http://thompkins_cariou.tripod.com/id34.html

                      "In 1066, the Jews arrived in England in the retinue of William of Normandy, the so-called 'Conqueror'. At the beginning of the thirteenth century, a wave of anti-Semitism struck England. Accused among other things of ritual murder, the Jews were forced to wear the yellow star. In 1290, Edward I expelled them by main force. In 1655, Cromwell, at the urging of Rabbi Menasseh Ben Israel of Amsterdam, permitted the Jews to return to England. This readmission merely sealed the alliance which had developed between the British monarchy and various Jewish groups under Henry VIII's reign, after the latter had sent his secret agent Richard Crooke to Venice to consult with various Rabbis and a Kabbalist regarding his demand that the Pope permit him to divorce and re-marry. In the second half of the sixteenth century, John Dee, astrologer, alchemist, and secret agent of Queen Elizabeth I, initiated members of the English upper classes into the secrets of the Kabbalah, and invented the doctrine of 'British Israelite Identity' as a justification for the British Empire ; Francis Bacon imbibed this doctrine from him, under the influence of the Rosicrucian Order. Founded in 1694, the Bank of England laid the foundations for the financial domination of the world by the Jewry encysted within the City of London.

                      The pinnacle of the alliance between the British plutocracy and Judaism, Benjamin Disraeli in 1837 became the first Jew to be elected to the British parliament, and then, a few years later, the first Jewish Prime Minister in the history of the country. A novelist in his spare time, as a politician he was required to put into practice one of the points of the Judeo-Masonic programme for world domination which he so imprudently exposed in his novels : the construction of an 'Empire of the Shopkeepers'. The 'British Empire', in fact, was never anything more than an 'Empire of the Shopkeepers' ; this 'Empire of the Shopkeepers' no longer exists today ; the shopkeepers are still there, but the 'Empire', created by Jewry to serve certain ends of theirs, was destroyed by the same Jewry once these ends had been attained. Everything leads us to believe that we have entered since the end of the nineteenth century into a new phase within the process described by the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'. It seems now clear that from that time onwards, Anglo-Saxon Jewry began to use London, which had become the Promised Land for all sorts of Islamists, to construct, on the basis of the famous Masonic sect, the Muslim Brotherhood, what has become known as 'Islamic Fundamentalism'. It is therefore interesting to return with Julius Evola to a historical figure whom it is not impossible was at the source of this instrumentalisation, insofar as it was precisely during his 'reign' that England laid its hands on Egypt, the cynosure of the Muslim Brothers. In this context, Evola invites us to distrust the apparent opposition between zionism and anti-zionism which is held out so artificially by a certain type of 'media' for the attention of the naïve."

                      Every people should conserve its own set of customs and values. Decadent modern Anglo-Saxons and Westerners have their own highly original and creative tradition and bloodstock to value but feel they cannot accept their own heritage because of centuries-long, imposed Judaic-Christian inferiorism.

                      Let the genetics results come in, then the ideological disillusionment will commence. The English and European royals are going to match their own populations instead of Afro-Asiatic bedouins.
                      Last edited by Hrodberht; 19 January 2006, 10:06 AM.

                      Comment


                      • IMPERIAL BRITISH-ISRAELISM: JUSTIFICATION FOR AN EMPIRE

                        http://www.revneal.org/Writings/british.htm

                        "British-Israelism" is the theory that the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel comprise the bulk of the population of Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, and the United States of America. The movement, which began in the 1850s, can be divided into three basic periods: Millennial, Imperial, and Neo-millennial. The first and third periods are similar to each other in that, while they accepted the initial postulate of the theory as stated above, the focus of the movement during these years can be found in their strong eschatological Christology. The Imperial period, on the other hand, had, as its primary goal, the justification of both the British Empire and the British throne. The purpose of this paper is to show how Imperial British-Israelism did this through Biblical hermeneutics and the use of pseudo-historical and archaeological sources. As a movement locked in history, we will discover that the Imperial period was a dynamic religious/political response to the decline of the Empire which began in 1901.

                        Comment


                        • M9 - K, Is this haplogroup related to the Phoenicians K2?

                          M9 - K, Is this haplogroup related to the Phoenicians K2?

                          This would mean that R1b has some sort of connection with the Phoenicians.

                          Could the Phoenicians be the Ibero-Sicanians from Spain that went to Sicily later?

                          Could both Phoenicians & Ibero-Sicanians come from the Aurignacian Culture?

                          Comment


                          • derinos

                            Originally posted by Hrodberht

                            Anglo-Israelism/British Zionism is unfortunately a long-standing dangerous and psychotic cult amongst the decadent Anglo-Saxon bourgeoisie, a bizarre ethnic self-esteem delusion and political rationalization mechanism for the alliance between British finance and Jewish finance in their drive toward global imperialism. .
                            In a recent arduous google quest to discover the ownership of the US Federal Reserve, we found that the ultimate signatory was a Lord Rothschild in London.

                            Comment


                            • Yes, by means of the German-Jewish agent, Paul Warburg. See-

                              Paul Warburg's Crusade to Establish a Central Bank in the United States

                              http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/region/89-05/reg895d.cfm

                              Quite the megalomaniacal situation.

                              I found a great site that synthesizes various sources and documents on this subject matter:

                              http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/oneworld.html

                              Carroll Quigley's "The Anglo-American Establishment" is necessary reading.

                              According to Israeli citizen Barry Chamish:

                              "There would be no modern state of Israel without British Freemasonry. In the 1860s, the British-Israelite movement was initiated from within Freemasonry."

                              http://www.barrychamish.com/

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hrodberht
                                Yes, by means of the German-Jewish agent, Paul Warburg. See-

                                Paul Warburg's Crusade to Establish a Central Bank in the United States

                                http://minneapolisfed.org/pubs/region/89-05/reg895d.cfm

                                Quite the megalomaniacal situation.

                                I found a great site that synthesizes various sources and documents on this subject matter:

                                http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/oneworld.html

                                Carroll Quigley's "The Anglo-American Establishment" is necessary reading.

                                According to Israeli citizen Barry Chamish:

                                "There would be no modern state of Israel without British Freemasonry. In the 1860s, the British-Israelite movement was initiated from within Freemasonry."

                                http://www.barrychamish.com/

                                lol why did truman an acknowledged anti-semite allow the nation of isreal and why did the royal family whose queens king brother was a german sympathizer . and his grand nephew wore a nazi uniform a year or two ago. i guess he didnt see anything wrong with it. england sent its jews to france to be captured by the germans. yet on may 1948 they vote for the nation.

                                do you believe in genetic memory?

                                there is a clock ticking in this world and times are assigned. it was time for israel. surely this world hasn't been friendly to them.all of a sudden they are lol

                                the more i write the more hilarious this is the world allowed isreal and it was a mason conspiracy.i think more powerful forces would of been neccesary

                                Comment

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