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  • Táltos
    replied
    Originally posted by QUARTET View Post
    I decided to follow some advice given on this thread and try to use a genealogy web site to track down more information on Margretha. I found some clues in that she came from Prussia but most German records have been destroyed from years of war and destruction. I think this is why many people fled in the first place. I still intend to have my father's cousin tested. Thanks for the interest.
    Thanks for the update. Good luck in your research.

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  • QUARTET
    replied
    mtDNA test

    I decided to follow some advice given on this thread and try to use a genealogy web site to track down more information on Margretha. I found some clues in that she came from Prussia but most German records have been destroyed from years of war and destruction. I think this is why many people fled in the first place. I still intend to have my father's cousin tested. Thanks for the interest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Táltos
    replied
    QUARTET this is interesting! Did you ever go ahead with the test and find out an answer?

    Leave a comment:


  • efgen
    replied
    Originally posted by jilski View Post
    i've talked about this extensively on 23 and me's 'forum' and most seem to think that i probably have a very distant jewish maternal grandmother. any thoughts?
    Agreed. If you were to take an mtDNA test at Family Tree DNA, you could expect to have tons of Ashkenazi matches (barring any unusual mutations in your own mtDNA). If you want to do this, order at least the mtDNAPlus test -- and the mtFullSequence is even better if you can swing it. The basic level mtDNA test is too broad.

    Elise

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  • Javelin
    replied
    Originally posted by jilski View Post
    i've talked about this extensively on 23 and me's 'forum' and most seem to think that i probably have a very distant jewish maternal grandmother. any thoughts?
    That seems most likely to me too. If this is the case, the Jewish ancestor could have been well before 1800, which would explain the lack of autosomal matches.

    Leave a comment:


  • Osiris
    replied
    This is an old thread but not all DNA from the family finder test is passed equally. If you can find a daughter of a son of a daughter of a son of her then potentially you could have a quarter of her X chromosomes. Four times more then the rest of her DNA. On average of course. You can send the raw data to Dr. McDonald and he runs population painting of that DNA.

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  • jilski
    replied
    Originally posted by Javelin View Post
    What individuals? What are their kit numbers, in which project? Where was their earliest known maternal ancestor born?

    Have you studied statistics? Maybe there are one or two examples of "no known Jewish ancestry" K1a1b1a as compared to over a thousand people who are K1a1b1a with known Jewish ancestry. The few counterexamples are statistically meaningless.
    my maternal haplogroup (tested at 23andMe) is K1a1b1a. i have no known jewish ancestry. my maternal side (my great great grandparents) were ukrainian greek catholics from galicia. my mom has only about 25 matches or so here on 'family finder'. all are distant or remote. i tested myself at 23andMe and i have about 320 'relative finder' matches and only about 2 or 3 declared ashkenazi jews - all distant. my mother is ukrainian greek catholic on both sides and my father is polish roman catholic on both sides. i am 3rd generation american, all of my great grandparents came from poland or the galicia area in the early 1900's. i've talked about this extensively on 23 and me's 'forum' and most seem to think that i probably have a very distant jewish maternal grandmother. any thoughts?

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  • lhy
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by QUARTET View Post
    This "dark Jew" came from Prussia in about 1810 and I have a poor picture of her holding my great Grandmother--her features appear to be African but I don't think there were any Africans in Prussia at that time.
    If she is from Prussia, she may have been of Indic Romani descent. Often the Romani can appear to be of mixed "European" and sub-saharan African descent, particularly if you are unfamiliar with their heritage. A DNA test should distinguish between sub-saharan African, Middle Eastern (Jewish), and sub-continental Asian (Romani). Your ancestor may have left some cultural remnants behind within you an your family: phrases, practices, a "different" view towards your current religion. Keep an eye out for that. Best of luck.

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  • econnore
    replied
    Originally posted by QUARTET View Post
    African or "Dark Jew"
    Queen Charlotte of Mecklenburg (1744-1818 in Pomerania) was believed to be of African descent.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlot...rican_ancestry

    Leave a comment:


  • mixedkid
    replied
    My guess is that she might very well be Jewish or have some Jewish ancestry. Then again, it is not uncommon for northern Europeans or northern European immigrants years ago to refer to a person darker than themselves as black or Jewish. I have heard of the use of the terms "white Jew" and "black Jew" (a derogatory term) used by Germans in the WWII era. From my own childhood, I can remember an otherwise nice Norwegian lady refer to a dark-haired fellow church member with an olive complexion as a "black man" (I think he was a French-Canadian person).

    One thing to remember too: Prussia, and eventually, the German Empire, consisted of many ethnicities. Berlin was especially a cosmopolitan mix.

    People of direct African origin did live in Germany, but after Germany acquired African colonies in the 19th century. Most disappeared in the holocaust.

    About mitochondrial or even Y haplogroups of African origin: That in itself would not necessarily be solid evidence of a recent African ancestor. Hitler (an ethnic Austrian) had a Y haplogroup of E, I believe. That is of African origin, a fact that would horrify the dictator if he were living today.

    Leave a comment:


  • QUARTET
    replied
    Family finder + mtDNA

    My quandary is that if I purchase the Family Finder I would like to test myself---not my father's cousin. I just thought she would be the most direct line to test for information about Margretha's origin (the least know part of our family) and that the mtDNA would be the most direct test for the cousin to contribute to our family search. This is a great exercise for my two boys 15 and 13 also and I want them to continue with this quest.

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  • nathanm
    replied
    Originally posted by QUARTET View Post
    Someone on this thread mentioned that if Margaretha's mother was of European decent and the father was of African decent then nothing significant would show up...a 50/50 chance---isn't the mtDNA from F to F? The "NO" answer wouldn't be conclusive......Is this a correct assumption? Seems like sort of a gamble but I would like to start with something.
    Correct, a non-haplogroup L results wouldn't necessarily mean she had no African ancestry, just that her maternal line wasn't African. If you can afford it, why not order mtDNA + FF; it's cheaper as a bundle, and it's on sale.

    Leave a comment:


  • msc_44
    replied
    yes if her mother was European then the mtdna will be European and if her father was African then the ydna will be African. There is another example that both her parents were mixed too so it would make it even harder to find mtdna or ydna that match African both might register as European.
    Last edited by msc_44; 6 December 2011, 03:33 PM.

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  • QUARTET
    replied
    50/50 chance

    Someone on this thread mentioned that if Margaretha's mother was of European decent and the father was of African decent then nothing significant would show up...a 50/50 chance---isn't the mtDNA from F to F? The "NO" answer wouldn't be conclusive......Is this a correct assumption? Seems like sort of a gamble but I would like to start with something.

    Leave a comment:


  • 7Marianne
    replied
    Originally posted by QUARTET View Post
    Thanks for the recommendation. At this point I'm really trying to hone-in on a tidbit of Margretha's history. In her picture she appears to be of some African origin, however, I know she came from Prussia in the late 1850's or very early 1860s (prior to the Civil War). That being said, I could not find any reference to African's living in Prussia during this time. Then the family stories that say she was a dark-skinned Jewish person and we know her maiden name was Schneider. Would the Family Finder be as specific for finding Margretha's background when I have a direct female to female to female to female line to test? thanks
    Margretha looks a lot like a good friend of mine and she is a Russian Jew.

    Leave a comment:

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