Father's, Father,s, Mother's, Mother

[msc_44]

African or "Dark Jew"

the women in the picture is clearly mixed African and European what would be considered as Mulatto on old census records.

[Mudgeeclarke]

... clearly mixed African and European ...

Wow, I think I'll just post some photographs and skip any further DNA tests ...

[QUARTET]

Combo

Good point msc44! So a combo of mtDNA (for my father's female cousin) and yDNA test for my father?

[msc_44]

You would have to ydna test a direct male descendant of Margretha SCHNEIDER father not a male descendant of John PROHASKA.

[tomcat]

the women in the picture is clearly mixed African and European what would be considered as Mulatto on old census records.

Whoa. Can the rest of us see the pic?

(Having seen another posted photo of an EEuro Jewish family with a distinctly "African-looking" female I have no problem with "dark Jew").

[tomcat]

Sorry, found the link to the snap.

[tomcat]

Why not do Family Finder for your father's female cousin? If you went with 23andMe's PGS you would get a read on her maternal haplo as well ... although there are other drawbacks to that option ...

[QUARTET]

Specificity of the Family Finder

Thanks for the recommendation. At this point I'm really trying to hone-in on a tidbit of Margretha's history. In her picture she appears to be of some African origin, however, I know she came from Prussia in the late 1850's or very early 1860s (prior to the Civil War). That being said, I could not find any reference to African's living in Prussia during this time. Then the family stories that say she was a dark-skinned Jewish person and we know her maiden name was Schneider. Would the Family Finder be as specific for finding Margretha's background when I have a direct female to female to female to female line to test? thanks

[nathanm]

Would the Family Finder be as specific for finding Margretha's background when I have a direct female to female to female to female line to test?

No, Family Finder will match relatives from every branch of her family tree. If you have identified a direct female descendant, an mtDNA test would be perfect for this purpose. If it comes back as haplogroup L, that would be a slam-dunk case for African ancestry on the maternal line.

[7Marianne]

Thanks for the recommendation. At this point I'm really trying to hone-in on a tidbit of Margretha's history. In her picture she appears to be of some African origin, however, I know she came from Prussia in the late 1850's or very early 1860s (prior to the Civil War). That being said, I could not find any reference to African's living in Prussia during this time. Then the family stories that say she was a dark-skinned Jewish person and we know her maiden name was Schneider. Would the Family Finder be as specific for finding Margretha's background when I have a direct female to female to female to female line to test? thanks

Margretha looks a lot like a good friend of mine and she is a Russian Jew.

[QUARTET]

50/50 chance

Someone on this thread mentioned that if Margaretha's mother was of European decent and the father was of African decent then nothing significant would show up...a 50/50 chance---isn't the mtDNA from F to F? The "NO" answer wouldn't be conclusive......Is this a correct assumption? Seems like sort of a gamble but I would like to start with something.

[msc_44]

yes if her mother was European then the mtdna will be European and if her father was African then the ydna will be African. There is another example that both her parents were mixed too so it would make it even harder to find mtdna or ydna that match African both might register as European.

[nathanm]

Someone on this thread mentioned that if Margaretha's mother was of European decent and the father was of African decent then nothing significant would show up...a 50/50 chance---isn't the mtDNA from F to F? The "NO" answer wouldn't be conclusive......Is this a correct assumption? Seems like sort of a gamble but I would like to start with something.

Correct, a non-haplogroup L results wouldn't necessarily mean she had no African ancestry, just that her maternal line wasn't African. If you can afford it, why not order mtDNA + FF; it's cheaper as a bundle, and it's on sale.

[QUARTET]

Family finder + mtDNA

My quandary is that if I purchase the Family Finder I would like to test myself---not my father's cousin. I just thought she would be the most direct line to test for information about Margretha's origin (the least know part of our family) and that the mtDNA would be the most direct test for the cousin to contribute to our family search. This is a great exercise for my two boys 15 and 13 also and I want them to continue with this quest.

[mixedkid]

My guess is that she might very well be Jewish or have some Jewish ancestry. Then again, it is not uncommon for northern Europeans or northern European immigrants years ago to refer to a person darker than themselves as black or Jewish. I have heard of the use of the terms "white Jew" and "black Jew" (a derogatory term) used by Germans in the WWII era. From my own childhood, I can remember an otherwise nice Norwegian lady refer to a dark-haired fellow church member with an olive complexion as a "black man" (I think he was a French-Canadian person).

One thing to remember too: Prussia, and eventually, the German Empire, consisted of many ethnicities. Berlin was especially a cosmopolitan mix.

People of direct African origin did live in Germany, but after Germany acquired African colonies in the 19th century. Most disappeared in the holocaust.

About mitochondrial or even Y haplogroups of African origin: That in itself would not necessarily be solid evidence of a recent African ancestor. Hitler (an ethnic Austrian) had a Y haplogroup of E, I believe. That is of African origin, a fact that would horrify the dictator if he were living today.