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Advice anyone, re: "East Asian" autosomal?

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  • Advice anyone, re: "East Asian" autosomal?

    Back in 2008 I had my mother's autosomal tested with Ancestry by Dna. She returned a 7% value from East Asia and while I realize that the percentage is not significant, it left me to wonder if this could also be middle eastern.

    Her Great Grandmother's surname was Jubar. I have traced the historical origins to Syria, where there are plenty of "Jubars". However, this does not prove anything within my lineage, it just puts forward a hypothesis.

    Could there be a correlation between East Asia and Middle Eastern, genetically speaking, with regard to this particular company? Or would you recommend testing with a different company?

    Cheers for any input.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Zaru View Post
    Back in 2008 I had my mother's autosomal tested with Ancestry by Dna. She returned a 7% value from East Asia and while I realize that the percentage is not significant, it left me to wonder if this could also be middle eastern.

    Her Great Grandmother's surname was Jubar. I have traced the historical origins to Syria, where there are plenty of "Jubars". However, this does not prove anything within my lineage, it just puts forward a hypothesis.

    Could there be a correlation between East Asia and Middle Eastern, genetically speaking, with regard to this particular company? Or would you recommend testing with a different company?

    Cheers for any input.
    I wasn't familiar with that company, so I had to Google it. Their website is scant on details, but the academic papers they reference are based on both SNPs and larger genes; the latest from 2003. The field's advanced quite a bit since then, and regardless, 176 ancestry informative markers (AIMs) is on the very low end compared to most tests today. Even DNA Tribes has a newer test with 29,000 autosomal SNPs, which is still pretty pathetic compared to the 700,000+ on the Illumina OmniExpress chip used by both 23andMe and FTDNA (although only 295,000 are used for BGA here).

    AncestrybyDNA does have a map with pie charts, plus a table, showing average admixture for different populations. Their "Middle East vers. I" and "Middle East vers. II" have between 4-5% East Asian, while "Turkish" has 7.3%. However, all of the above have quite large standard deviations, so there's lots of variation among the N=9, 11, and 40, respectively. Their results are rather limited since they only report four "components": European, Sub-Saharan African, East Asian, and American.

    It's not much to go on, but it sounds like your mother's results are consistent with Middle Eastern reference populations. Are you just looking to confirm her Middle Eastern roots, or do you want more refined results? The Family Finder (FF) here would give you the raw data needed for more advanced BGA analysis like Dr McDonald or the Dodecad project can provide.

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    • #3
      I don't know the test, but, as Nathan was saying, the error bound is very large. In a Europe vs East Asia comparison, the Middle East would usually pick up just a touch more East Asian, but we're talking about a few percentage points, no more. and we're not talking about a middle eastern person here, but the GGdaughter, which has only a fraction of the DNA.

      Comparing directly with Middle Eastern populations and a test with more markers could help. But keep in mind two things: first, Middle Eastern and europeans are pretty close to start with. Second, as said, if the relation is GGmother, we're talking about 1/8th of your mother's DNA.In other words, it will be hard to tease out such a connection.

      cacio

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      • #4
        Originally posted by cacio View Post
        I don't know the test, but, as Nathan was saying, the error bound is very large. In a Europe vs East Asia comparison, the Middle East would usually pick up just a touch more East Asian, but we're talking about a few percentage points, no more. and we're not talking about a middle eastern person here, but the GGdaughter, which has only a fraction of the DNA.

        Comparing directly with Middle Eastern populations and a test with more markers could help. But keep in mind two things: first, Middle Eastern and europeans are pretty close to start with. Second, as said, if the relation is GGmother, we're talking about 1/8th of your mother's DNA.In other words, it will be hard to tease out such a connection.

        cacio
        I think that a higher resolution might flesh some of this out. I was concerned about the exactness of the percentages and categorization when I received them. European was 53%, Sub Saharan 40%, and East Asian 7%. The margin of error either way was 10%.

        With that being said, it does match up with our records to date and the only missing link was the hypothesis that Jubar=middle eastern. Confirming this is my ultimate goal here.

        Cheers all.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zaru View Post
          I think that a higher resolution might flesh some of this out. I was concerned about the exactness of the percentages and categorization when I received them. European was 53%, Sub Saharan 40%, and East Asian 7%. The margin of error either way was 10%.

          With that being said, it does match up with our records to date and the only missing link was the hypothesis that Jubar=middle eastern. Confirming this is my ultimate goal here.

          Cheers all.
          Do you have anyone to Y-DNA test your Jubar surname of if can you find someone that is in that direct line to Y-DNA test? The % tests don't tell you which ancestor and my results are quite different from Dr McDonald's readings as opposed to PF. PF needs to be readjusted.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
            Do you have anyone to Y-DNA test your Jubar surname of if can you find someone that is in that direct line to Y-DNA test? The % tests don't tell you which ancestor and my results are quite different from Dr McDonald's readings as opposed to PF. PF needs to be readjusted.
            Thanks Yaffa,

            There are so few Jubars in the States. I have reached out to one male that I found, but he never responded to my queries. My immigrant ancestor of the Jubar line had the first name of Abraham, which could easily be "Ibrahim" and is listed in his civil war registration as being dark complexion, brown eyes, black hair. He did marry a "vanilla" type woman, Jane Searles. Which means nothing, since their child married a black man!

            However, worth mentioning is that they came into the states from French Canada around 1820, I do not know if there were any people of arabic descent living in FC at that time!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Zaru View Post
              Thanks Yaffa,

              There are so few Jubars in the States. I have reached out to one male that I found, but he never responded to my queries. My immigrant ancestor of the Jubar line had the first name of Abraham, which could easily be "Ibrahim" and is listed in his civil war registration as being dark complexion, brown eyes, black hair. He did marry a "vanilla" type woman, Jane Searles. Which means nothing, since their child married a black man!

              However, worth mentioning is that they came into the states from French Canada around 1820, I do not know if there were any people of arabic descent living in FC at that time!
              Your Welcome. I too have a Canadian ancestor that I cant find anything on. Have you checked the LDS pilot search? They are slowly adding records on line for viewing. I still can not find any baptism on my ancestor from Canada and I have no proof of where in Canada she was born. You would be surprised back then how many Vanilla married Chocolate LOL. It happened a lot more than some may know.

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              • #8
                "Jubar" from Canada is probably an attempt to render into American English the French [Canadian] name "Joubert." Quebec has truly excellent baptismal records (Drouin Collection) but you do have to know how to read French to get maximum use of them.

                Ancestry by DNA results are best ignored. If your mother is still living, consider testing her with Family Finder instead.

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                • #9
                  but you do have to know how to read French to get maximum use of them.
                  French scribble would be more accurate even a francaophone can't make out half of the entries.
                  Sorry don't want to detract from an interesting thread but just had to add that.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Javelin View Post
                    "Jubar" from Canada is probably an attempt to render into American English the French [Canadian] name "Joubert." Quebec has truly excellent baptismal records (Drouin Collection) but you do have to know how to read French to get maximum use of them.

                    Ancestry by DNA results are best ignored. If your mother is still living, consider testing her with Family Finder instead.
                    I would be inclined to agree with you on that. I would then pose the question, is Joubert a derivative of Jubar? Being that I am not a francophone, I do not know if Joubert translates into anything. Is the Drouin collection available only through Ancestry?

                    Cheers.

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                    • #11
                      Brunetjm's point is correct, the handwriting can be hard to decode. Ancestry is certainly the easiest way for most people to see the collection.

                      "Joubert" is probably a variation of a Frankic (Germanic) personal name -- same form as "Robert" for example.

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                      • #12
                        I have checked with drouin and thank you. There is someone who matches name/birthdate, but married someone else and stayed in Canada as opposed to moving into the States. That was for Joubert. So thank you for the lead. I can comprehend the writing as I am fluent in Italian, so I can decipher the language a bit.

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                        • #13
                          You're most welcome, sorry the hint did not pay off.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Javelin View Post
                            You're most welcome, sorry the hint did not pay off.
                            Joubert IS derived from the Germanic, according to Wiki. I am not convinced of their conclusion at this point, but it is more sensible than the middle eastern hypothesis.

                            I would like to figure out the eastern asian bit though. We were told that my mother's side also has Native American, could this account for the EA mystery?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zaru View Post
                              Joubert IS derived from the Germanic, according to Wiki. I am not convinced of their conclusion at this point, but it is more sensible than the middle eastern hypothesis.

                              I would like to figure out the eastern asian bit though. We were told that my mother's side also has Native American, could this account for the EA mystery?
                              Although the AncestrybyDNA test is pretty limited, they do report an "Indigenous American" ancestral component. It's possible Native American got classified as East Asian, but not as likely in this case. For example, at 23andMe they only list Europe, Asia, and Africa, so almost any Native American ancestry gets lumped in as Asian. I'd assume the percentage AncestrybyDNA reported as "Indigenous American" is Native American, and the "East Asian" is Asian. What were all four percentages from the test?

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