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  • Very confused

    I have always thought(family legend) that my mothers father was half Native American. Her mother's family was mostly Irish-English. My father's family were mostly Hungarian jews , three grandparents and English,one grandmother. My results from family finder are:
    Europe-French,Orcadian,Romanian,Spanish 75.43%
    Midddle East-Palestinian,Iranian,Jewish,Adygei,Bedouin South,Druze 24.57%
    I'm thinking maybe the "native american" was really middle eastern. Anyone have any ideas. I just don't know enough. Thanks, Barbara

  • #2
    Distinguishing nationalities within Europe is extremely difficult, and you should take the results with a grain of salt. And the middle east and Europe are relatively close anyway. European Jews have retained many middle eastern similarities, so in these test they could pick up a middle eastern component. In other words, your results are perfectly compatible with a mixed European and Jewish origin.

    As for a possible Native American component, you seem to imply that it should be 1/8 (1/2 of one grandparent). Admixture tests (ie those tests that say you are x% european, y% east asian) should be able to pick this up, though imprecisely. However, note that Native Americans were themselves already admixed (ie your great-grandfather or -mother could have been Native, but herself with much European ancestry), which would push the percentage of Native American to lower levels, which could be difficult to detect. In other words, I'd say that while the results make the Native American Ancestry unlikely, they do not disprove it.

    As for the Middle Eastern component, as said, this could be easily explained by the Jewish ancestors, though of course one cannot rule out also some Middle Eastern (or perhaps southern European) ancestor.

    cacio

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    • #3
      Originally posted by 1broseman View Post
      I have always thought(family legend) that my mothers father was half Native American. Her mother's family was mostly Irish-English. My father's family were mostly Hungarian jews , three grandparents and English,one grandmother. My results from family finder are:
      Europe-French,Orcadian,Romanian,Spanish 75.43%
      Midddle East-Palestinian,Iranian,Jewish,Adygei,Bedouin South,Druze 24.57%
      I'm thinking maybe the "native american" was really middle eastern. Anyone have any ideas. I just don't know enough. Thanks, Barbara
      There is a problem with the Middle Eastern assignment and other assignments and FTDNA needs to readjust it. Send your raw data to Doug McDonald [email protected] . You can download your raw data on X and autosomal on your home page here at FTDNA. Dr Mcdonald does have a few Indigenous samples he can compare you to but most tribes are not giving up their DNA.
      Last edited by Yaffa; 12 September 2011, 07:52 AM.

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      • #4
        Since I was a kid I have always heard about a rumor of Indian blood being part of the family make up. Some of us look like there could be a chance of it while others don't. While researching one line in my tree I came across a enlistment for one man described as dark dark dark and it read like the person writing it was not sure if he was writing about a white man or other. This name is Irish and I have heard of Black Irish which have darker features black hair dark eyes and so on. I wonder if somewhere down the line looked at these dark features and may have decided that it was because there was a Indian connection. Also because of a NPE I have wondered if it was a way to redirect questioning about the family so to avoid the uncomfortable reality. I have also been told that in the past 40 to 50 years its become popular to make that claim of a Indian connection.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by EdwardRHill View Post
          Since I was a kid I have always heard about a rumor of Indian blood being part of the family make up. Some of us look like there could be a chance of it while others don't. While researching one line in my tree I came across a enlistment for one man described as dark dark dark and it read like the person writing it was not sure if he was writing about a white man or other. This name is Irish and I have heard of Black Irish which have darker features black hair dark eyes and so on. I wonder if somewhere down the line looked at these dark features and may have decided that it was because there was a Indian connection. Also because of a NPE I have wondered if it was a way to redirect questioning about the family so to avoid the uncomfortable reality. I have also been told that in the past 40 to 50 years its become popular to make that claim of a Indian connection.
          Edward, I have seen a fair share of adoptees, and non adopted persons post on different sites, who were told there was "Native American" ancestry in their past, and they find out through DNA that it is not the case.

          Judy

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nolnacsj View Post
            Edward, I have seen a fair share of adoptees, and non adopted persons post on different sites, who were told there was "Native American" ancestry in their past, and they find out through DNA that it is not the case.

            Judy
            I don't know anything about adoptees or how they research nor was I commenting on that. What I do know is my own experience and what I have done and seen with my 15 years of research of my own tree. Which it looks like 1broseman has in countered also. I have read that DNA testing for Indian Ancestry might not work all the time. The Illumina population finder is based on people who have tested. Yaffa who is always posting about Indian research on here and seems to know what he is talking about say this about Indian Tribes "most tribes are not giving up their DNA." I'm just looking for the same information 1broseman is and added my 2 cents.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EdwardRHill View Post
              I don't know anything about adoptees or how they research nor was I commenting on that. What I do know is my own experience and what I have done and seen with my 15 years of research of my own tree. Which it looks like 1broseman has in countered also. I have read that DNA testing for Indian Ancestry might not work all the time. The Illumina population finder is based on people who have tested. Yaffa who is always posting about Indian research on here and seems to know what he is talking about say this about Indian Tribes "most tribes are not giving up their DNA." I'm just looking for the same information 1broseman is and added my 2 cents.
              It's not so easy to find Indigenous DNA through aurtosomal because there are not enough samples. Doug McDonald has a few private samples of indigenous DNA that others don't. It's hit or miss if he can find it if you have indigenous in your back round and it may not read all of it. Dr McDonald gave me some different tribes than my uncle. Best way to find it if you have indigenous in your back round is through crossing Y-and MT DNA in your direct lines especially if you dont have paper stating Indian.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EdwardRHill View Post
                The Illumina population finder is based on people who have tested.
                Sort of, but not based on people who tested here, like Family Finder matches. Instead, they're using reference populations in publicly available datasets from academic research.

                Originally posted by EdwardRHill View Post
                Yaffa who is always posting about Indian research on here and seems to know what he is talking about say this about Indian Tribes "most tribes are not giving up their DNA."
                He's talking about people who advise Native Americans to not participate in genetic research, like the idiot professor in this article.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by nathanm View Post

                  He's talking about people who advise Native Americans to not participate in genetic research, like the idiot professor in this article.
                  Their point of view is they don't need to DNA test to prove who they are. They already have their culture and have always belonged to their tribes. Then on top of it if their DNA lines should come up European or something else they might be afraid the Government will step in and take away their rights. They are still fighting for their rights. The tribes decide who are tribal members. Each Indian nation has their own rules for enrollment. There are a few here and there that will test trying to trace out their ancestors but not many tribes as a whole are willing to DNA test and I understand why.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yaffa View Post
                    It's not so easy to find Indigenous DNA through aurtosomal because there are not enough samples. Doug McDonald has a few private samples of indigenous DNA that others don't. It's hit or miss if he can find it if you have indigenous in your back round and it may not read all of it. Dr McDonald gave me some different tribes than my uncle. Best way to find it if you have indigenous in your back round is through crossing Y-and MT DNA in your direct lines especially if you dont have paper stating Indian.
                    Thanks how can i contact him to see if he can help?

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                    • #11
                      I still hold that not enough samples of DNA have been taken from North American tribal members. We should not be comparing test participants' DNA with that of tribes from Central and South America.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mixedkid View Post
                        I still hold that not enough samples of DNA have been taken from North American tribal members. We should not be comparing test participants' DNA with that of tribes from Central and South America.
                        For now, the Native American DNA samples from south of the border are all we have. It's better for verifying Native American ancestry than 23andMe or other companies who only say Asian.

                        However, Dienekes blogged about a new study in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology. His comments are more about some technical details of the genetics, but the article is online for free. They took samples from 29 Native American tribes, including three from North America. Hopefully, they release the data publicly, so we can do more finely-grained analysis for people with Native American ancestry.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting and something I have forgot about was matches from Gedmatch that had a connection to South American. I know Cheerokees did some trading with the southern tribes so others probably did too. That might explain my South American connection.But than again it might mean nothing.

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