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  • Ex hic , quo goest Ego?

    So, as of last evening, I have Y-67 marker results (yay!), but from here, whither goest I ? I'm not sure ...

    I'm asking for a push in the right direction, please. I apologize for the length of the following comments.

    My Deep Clade is still in progress (R1b1a2 predicted). I have placed the Y67 markers at Y-Search. I have an NPE at paternal great-grandfather level (most likely, c 1831, Cambridgeshire UK) which has been greatly researched without confirming paternity, so I have no Name project that I can realistically join (and I've been politely turned down by the only two Clark(e) projects (both in US) because of the NPE and geography. The only likely geographical project (East Anglia UK) has not been active for over a year and join requests are not accepted. I have joined the Kerchner R1b and Subclades Project, although it is still showing my 25 markers and not my recent 67 markers. There is no point joining the R1b1a2 Project 'inside' the major R1b study as that 'inside' study is inactive. (Same Admin as the inactive mtDNA U3b project).

    At FTDNA / Y-Search, other than at 25 markers where I have six exact matches, there are no matches (FTDNA and Y-Search) better than 1 at Genetic Distance 4 (Y37) and 1 at GD4 (Y67) (same person) and then matches are at GD 5 and beyond. (And none of the Y25 exact matches survive at Y37 and up.) I don't feel inclined to spend a lot of time at Y-37 GD4, GD5 etc (maybe I should?).

    If I check "Matches by Project" I see there are 75 total. 52 'not in a project', 22 in the R1b and Subclades Project, and 1 in the Germany mtDNA project (not sure why that would show for Y-DNA). I know from randomly joining Projects at 25 markers (killing time waiting for Y67), some participants (maybe unwittingly) restrict their results to a project, and so matches 'pop up' unexpectedly if you join. So, potentially there are some 'hidden' matches. But I have no way other than randomly, it appears, to find those matches when Name is unknown and Geographical is inactive.

    Given that the predicted Haplogroup is one of 'the big ones', I presume there are other projects 'outside' which I can find. I'm hunting them now.

    BTW, I didn't have any high expectations that have been 'dashed' - I really ventured into 'genetealogy' out of amateur scientific curiosity, and to add to the global database. Any genealogical findings will be a bonus and add to my 30+ years of paper-trail research. And yes, a bonus would be nice !

    I'd appreciate your suggestions, advice, or tips.

    Colin

    R1b1a2 R-269 (Predicted).
    Y-Search: UJJRA
    mtDNA: U3b

  • #2
    NPE 67 projects

    If you haven't already, may I suggest that you join the " adopted " project. Since you have a NPE, you don't know your true ancestors. The adopted project will compare your dna to all projects and make suggestions to you that you may want to join certain projects. They do the work of searching for the projects for you. However, I know this works for family finder. Not sure if it works for Y dna. Does anyone know ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by canaryislandgirl View Post
      If you haven't already, may I suggest that you join the " adopted " project. Since you have a NPE, you don't know your true ancestors. The adopted project will compare your dna to all projects and make suggestions to you that you may want to join certain projects. They do the work of searching for the projects for you. However, I know this works for family finder. Not sure if it works for Y dna. Does anyone know ?

      Good thinking ! I didn't know of such a Project.

      I looked at the Adopted Group Project page and it doesn't exclude NPE, so I hit the 'join' button and I'll see what happens. The 'sales pitch' seems to include Y-DNA results, and as you mention, says it will do a search for matches against the entire database. I therefore hope that would include Name/Geographic projects where the data is kept inside the project because of 'owner' preferences. Fingers crossed.

      Anyone else?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by canaryislandgirl View Post
        If you haven't already, may I suggest that you join the " adopted " project. Since you have a NPE, you don't know your true ancestors. The adopted project will compare your dna to all projects and make suggestions to you that you may want to join certain projects. They do the work of searching for the projects for you. However, I know this works for family finder. Not sure if it works for Y dna. Does anyone know ?
        Hi Again (already).

        It happened already ... after about 5 minutes ! I got many matches from inside projects where the other person had elected to keep the results from general view. I now have the names of (many) Name projects - some with up to 9 matches, and quite a few with 3 or 4. Of course, none of them may be relevant, but it's a start !!

        Thank you, Canaryislandgirl .

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Colin.

          I took the YDNA test to find out more about my great great grandfather, rumored to be Scottish and referred to as "an Englishman" in the church books. My great grandfather was born in Norway, and most of my other ancestors are Norwegian, except for a few Swedes from just across the border. Luckily, I had a name to search for, so I searched for that surname on the FTDNA frontpage and got one match, so I went ahead and ordered the YDNA 12 marker test.

          When I got the test back, I found out I was predicted R1b1a2 and had 1200 exact matches at 12 markers. FTDNA only allows to list 1000 matches, but among those 1000 I did not find the surname I was looking for. I then decided to upgrade to 67 markers.

          When I got the 67 marker results back, I had two matches at GD 4 at 37 markers but none with the surname I was looking for. One had tested at 67 markers and did not show up there. I had no matches at 67 markers.

          I had to stick to traditional genealogy, and with some help from a person with experience in Scottish genealogy, I was able to find a plausible ancestor; A shipmaster from Dundee. I spent quite some time researching British maritime records and was able to prove that he sailed along the Norwegian coast nine months prior to my great grandfather's birth.

          Now here comes the part that's relevant for you... A couple of weeks ago, I got a match at GD 1 at 37 markers with a person with a different surname. However, that person was researching an NPE in 1871 from a town just outside Dundee. He has ordered an upgrade to 67 markers, and two panels are now back and they exactly match my YDNA, so we are currently at GD 1 at 54 markers, waiting for the rest of the markers to appear.

          My point is, the database keeps growing and time is on your side. You might suddenly get a really close match one day.

          -Kai

          PS: I have still not found the person that shows up in the surname search from the front page, and I suspect he/she has either not tested YDNA or has turned off global matches. And FTDNA's privacy policy won't let me contact him/her.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by k.o.gran View Post
            Hi Colin.

            I took the YDNA test to find out more about my great great grandfather, rumored to be Scottish and referred to as "an Englishman" in the church books. My great grandfather was born in Norway, and most of my other ancestors are Norwegian, except for a few Swedes from just across the border. Luckily, I had a name to search for, so I searched for that surname on the FTDNA frontpage and got one match, so I went ahead and ordered the YDNA 12 marker test.

            When I got the test back, I found out I was predicted R1b1a2 and had 1200 exact matches at 12 markers. FTDNA only allows to list 1000 matches, but among those 1000 I did not find the surname I was looking for. I then decided to upgrade to 67 markers.

            When I got the 67 marker results back, I had two matches at GD 4 at 37 markers but none with the surname I was looking for. One had tested at 67 markers and did not show up there. I had no matches at 67 markers.

            I had to stick to traditional genealogy, and with some help from a person with experience in Scottish genealogy, I was able to find a plausible ancestor; A shipmaster from Dundee. I spent quite some time researching British maritime records and was able to prove that he sailed along the Norwegian coast nine months prior to my great grandfather's birth.

            Now here comes the part that's relevant for you... A couple of weeks ago, I got a match at GD 1 at 37 markers with a person with a different surname. However, that person was researching an NPE in 1871 from a town just outside Dundee. He has ordered an upgrade to 67 markers, and two panels are now back and they exactly match my YDNA, so we are currently at GD 1 at 54 markers, waiting for the rest of the markers to appear.

            My point is, the database keeps growing and time is on your side. You might suddenly get a really close match one day.

            -Kai

            PS: I have still not found the person that shows up in the surname search from the front page, and I suspect he/she has either not tested YDNA or has turned off global matches. And FTDNA's privacy policy won't let me contact him/her.
            Many thanks for the very interesting, and encouraging note, Kai. There's quite a bit if "DNA Success Story" there !

            I'm very impressed that you could even locate the timing of that voyage at the "right time" up the Norwegian coast. I wonder if he travelled also overland by Coach to visit any friends in Cambridgeshire UK in 1830 !!

            I am very familiar with paper trail research, as I have been looking for my GGF since ~1979. The National Archives in the UK have been a great source, as well as village archives (a weekly news journal from that era etc). Also, when my GGF was put into jail aged 19 for stealing a duck "valued two shillings", I was lucky that the jailer clerk was very detailed in his physical description of GGF Richard, (hair eyes stature general intelligence), even down to the small tattoo of his initials "RC" on his inner forearm, and of course, the lack of a father's name for the report.

            So, I have not ceased paper research, but I did all of this DNA testing hoping that - as it has for you - there will be a time when a decent match turns up (GD1 at Y67 and a printed book of history would be nice.) It does seem that DNA testing has been a little slower to become popular in the UK, though.

            I'm going to also do the FF after my Deep Clade result is in, although FF matches can lead down a maternal trail as well - which for me is in Germany and which I have reasonably well covered.

            Anyway, again, many thanks, and best of luck in your search.

            I do like sea travel myself , so I'm thinking your Shipmaster is probably my G GGF.

            Colin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mudgeeclarke View Post
              ... I now have the names of (many) Name projects - some with up to 9 matches, and quite a few with 3 or 4. Of course, none of them may be relevant, but it's a start !!
              Thank you, Canaryislandgirl .
              Just as an update on joining the 'Adopted' project. After refining the searches to Y37 and Y67 only , I have been able to join four projects which show Y37 Y67 matches, around GD4. Although this GD puts the possibility quite some distance in the past, it may be useful to look at the geographical setting for these matches.

              Can't hurt to be in the projects though, especially as some results were 'locked up' inside and not available to non-project members.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mudgeeclarke View Post
                I have joined the Kerchner R1b and Subclades Project, although it is still showing my 25 markers and not my recent 67 markers. There is no point joining the R1b1a2 Project 'inside' the major R1b study as that 'inside' study is inactive. (Same Admin as the inactive mtDNA U3b project).
                I'd be up for learning on the job of co-administering that subclade project if you were...

                I know from randomly joining Projects at 25 markers (killing time waiting for Y67), some participants (maybe unwittingly) restrict their results to a project, and so matches 'pop up' unexpectedly if you join. So, potentially there are some 'hidden' matches.
                Prior to my initial purchase I asked what proportion of customers opted to make their results public and was told something like 97%. If I were FTDNA I would make it my policy to allow public only from hereon in, say goodbye to 3% of my business but position myself as the go-to DNA company for people who actually want to get in touch with their matches - i.e. more attractive to the 97%.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hamish View Post
                  I'd be up for learning on the job of co-administering that subclade project if you were...
                  I'm getting knee deep in another project it seems, so I'm not inclined to get involved just yet ... but I could change my mind ....


                  Originally posted by hamish View Post
                  Prior to my initial purchase I asked what proportion of customers opted to make their results public and was told something like 97%. If I were FTDNA I would make it my policy to allow public only from hereon in, say goodbye to 3% of my business but position myself as the go-to DNA company for people who actually want to get in touch with their matches - i.e. more attractive to the 97%.
                  I agree. And I was also told that the % who restrict their results often do not realize it is a double edged sword for them. The fact for me is that by getting into the 'adopted' and a couple of others at random this past week, I now have an extremely good lead at Y67 on my NPE great grandfather's possible paternal line. I think they all should be public, even if all are just known as the Kit Number or whatever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mudgeeclarke View Post
                    Hi Again (already).

                    It happened already ... after about 5 minutes ! I got many matches from inside projects where the other person had elected to keep the results from general view. I now have the names of (many) Name projects - some with up to 9 matches, and quite a few with 3 or 4. Of course, none of them may be relevant, but it's a start !!

                    Thank you, Canaryislandgirl .
                    WOW! You are lucky. I joined the Adopted Project a long time ago, and I don't think I have ever heard anything from anyone there. Guess being female is one reason. Y-DNA is not an option.

                    Judy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nolnacsj View Post
                      WOW! You are lucky. I joined the Adopted Project a long time ago, and I don't think I have ever heard anything from anyone there. Guess being female is one reason. Y-DNA is not an option.

                      Judy
                      I'm sorry for you, Judy. I'm sure that mtDNA (alone) means it is much more difficult. My older brother has three adopted children who are now adults - including one daughter - and the story will be very similar for her I am sure. Unless you have an adopted brother with you, or that you know of, and that you know for sure is truly from the same father, it is a huge obstacle to overcome.

                      I wish you all the best, and good luck.

                      Colin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Adopted Project

                        Hi - I was following this thread and decided to join the adopted project and see what happened. All of a sudden I see all these matches in other projects. Wow!!! Thanks for the tip.

                        However, in my "Matches by Project" section I am now missing the information that was there prior to joining the adopted project. It used to display the break-out of where my public matches were and included also "Not in a Project", however, that display is now gone. Is there a way to keep both sets of information on display? thx!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mudgeeclarke View Post
                          I'm sorry for you, Judy. I'm sure that mtDNA (alone) means it is much more difficult. My older brother has three adopted children who are now adults - including one daughter - and the story will be very similar for her I am sure. Unless you have an adopted brother with you, or that you know of, and that you know for sure is truly from the same father, it is a huge obstacle to overcome.

                          I wish you all the best, and good luck.

                          Colin
                          Colin,

                          I have an older 1/2 or full sibling out there somewhere but I don't even know the age or gender. However, patience is key. I have faith that the autosomal tests now available, will help provide answers at some point. I do have one 3rd cousin match here, and another adoptee in his 70's just had his DNA done (Family Finder), and he has a 2nd cousin match.

                          Connecting all the dots is harder for adoptees, but over time, with patience and hard work, and assistance from our matches, many of us will begin to see connections for the first time. I am actually excited about what might be discovered about me and my family genealogy in the future.

                          Thank you for your warm wishes.

                          Judy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Colin Clarke YDNA R-L2

                            Colin - My son is also R-L2. He's got a great-great grandfather who was a foundling (b. 1853 Capua, Caserta, Italy). He was recently invited to join the U-152 project - which is apparently quite active.

                            You might want to check it out.


                            Gaye

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi - I was following this thread and decided to join the adopted project and see what happened. All of a sudden I see all these matches in other projects. Wow!!! Thanks for the tip.

                              However, in my "Matches by Project" section I am now missing the information that was there prior to joining the adopted project.
                              You're Welcome, Ben. And, sorry, I have no idea why that is... I wish I knew...

                              Connecting all the dots is harder for adoptees, but over time, with patience and hard work, and assistance from our matches, many of us will begin to see connections for the first time. I am actually excited about what might be discovered about me and my family genealogy in the future.

                              Thank you for your warm wishes.
                              Thanks, Judy. Aaah, yes, the waiting game ...

                              Colin - My son is also R-L2. He's got a great-great grandfather who was a foundling (b. 1853 Capua, Caserta, Italy). He was recently invited to join the U-152 project - which is apparently quite active.

                              You might want to check it out. Gaye
                              Thanks, Gaye. Yes, I'm in that Project. I'm also doing a further test (Z49). It's only money, after all.

                              Comment

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