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  • Haplotree Legend

    I can't see an appropriate FAQ. So here's a bonehead question ...

    At myFTDNA and the Y-DNA Haplotree, there is a legend pop-up which shows colors for Test in Progress, Confirmed, Predicted, Tested Negative et al. My Deep Clade is in progress (still) but I do see some changes over the past week or so at My Haplotree (a few Negatives [red] etc.)

    But there are also many black SNPs. Can I assume that these have been tested? For example, on one branch line it shows [L164...] in Blue (= Test in Progress) but also then on the same line appears L237 and L45 in black. (i.e.not negative, positive, predicted, or confirmed, colors.)

    The FAQs even tell me why SNPs are numbered and prefixed the way they are. But I'm probably the only person on the planet who doesn't know the significance of Black..

  • #2
    The black isn't included in the legend, but it means "presumed negative".

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Mudgeeclarke.

      The reason L237 and L45 are black on the same line as L164 is because these mutations are thought to have occurred at the same time in the same individual. They are parallel SNPs. So in other words, you only have to test for one of them and the result of the other two will be the same.

      And that was not a bonehead question!

      -Kai

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by vinnie View Post
        The black isn't included in the legend, but it means "presumed negative".
        Thanks, Vinnie.

        So does that mean in a Deep Clade test, they do not even test there? Or is every SNP tested and (by the completion) nothing is "presumed"?

        The reason I ask is that I thought there would be some sort of progression in testing (oldest to newest?) yet I see (for the moment at least) where Testing in Progress blue appears before, after, and in the middle of black SNPs up and down the Tree. For example, at the moment I can see:

        L11 L151 L52 [P310...] P311

        L163 [L44...]

        [L164...] L237 L45

        Not critical ... just curious.

        Colin

        --------------------

        Curiosity is the wick in the candle of learning - William Arthur Ward.

        Comment


        • #5
          Actually, the black text is more of a catch-all for SNPs that don't fall into any of the categories on the legend.

          In many cases, a SNP in black text is just one that hasn't been tested, and won't be tested as part of your deep-clade test because it's in a different branch of the tree (this is the "presumed negative" case that Vinnie mentioned).

          Example: If you've tested positive for R1a, then any SNP below R1b is going to be listed in black since you're presumed negative for subclades of R1b.

          However, in other cases, a SNP in black may be one of several defining SNPs for a subclade, but it won't be included in deep-clade testing since only one SNP per subclade is typically tested.

          Example: There are 5 SNPs listed as defining R1b1a2a1a1: L11, L151, L52, P310, P311. Only P310 is orange (Test Available) and the rest are black. Although the SNPs in black can probably be ordered individually via advanced orders, only P310 would be tested via the deep-clade test.

          Elise
          Last edited by efgen; 29 August 2011, 06:37 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by k.o.gran View Post
            Hi Mudgeeclarke.

            The reason L237 and L45 are black on the same line as L164 is because these mutations are thought to have occurred at the same time in the same individual. They are parallel SNPs. So in other words, you only have to test for one of them and the result of the other two will be the same.

            And that was not a bonehead question!

            -Kai
            Thanks, Kai.

            I guess you replied about the time I did ...

            Maybe you answered most of my response/question.

            Thanks,

            Colin (The Member formerly known as Bonehead).
            Last edited by Mudgeeclarke; 29 August 2011, 06:42 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by efgen View Post
              Actually, the black text is more of a catch-all for SNPs that don't fall into any of the categories on the legend.

              In many cases, a SNP in black text is just one that hasn't been tested, and won't be tested as part of your deep-clade test because it's in a different branch of the tree (this is the "presumed negative" case that Vinnie mentioned).

              Example: If you've tested positive for R1a, then any SNP below R1b is going to be listed in black since you're presumed negative for subclades of R1b.

              However, in other cases, a SNP in black may be one of several defining SNPs for a subclade, but it won't be included in deep-clade testing since only one SNP per subclade is typically tested.

              Example: There are 5 SNPs listed as defining R1b1a2a1a1: L11, L151, L52, P310, P311. Only P310 is orange (Test Available) and the rest are black. Although the SNPs in black can probably be ordered individually via advanced orders, only P310 would be tested via the deep-clade test.

              Elise

              Thanks, Elise.

              You probably hit the Submit button when I hit my reply too.

              My "Predicted" is R1b1a2, so I am heading in the direction you mentioned ....


              Colin
              Last edited by Mudgeeclarke; 29 August 2011, 06:44 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Naturally, since I started this thread today, my Deep Clade was pushed back a few minutes ago to 9/19/2011. It seems so long since I handed my swab vials to an FTDNA rep on May 15th. Still waiting on Y67 and Deep Clade. Yawn.

                --------------------------------------------------------------
                PS. I hope that such delays - for many customers it appears - do not jump up and bite FTDNA.

                Indecision and delays are the parents of failure.
                George Canning

                Comment


                • #9
                  My brother's deep clade was ordered 6/12; and then we found out from a project admin that he's most likely R-U198 and already joined that project pending results.

                  The results have pushed back twice, and so far they have tested 9 negatives; there are about 35 in light blue left. I hope they get to R-U198 soon and don't have to go through all of those.

                  I wrote to try to get them to test for R-U198; but they said once the test is underway, they can't change the order of testing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wilma Wildcat View Post
                    My brother's deep clade was ordered 6/12; and then we found out from a project admin that he's most likely R-U198 and already joined that project pending results.

                    The results have pushed back twice, and so far they have tested 9 negatives; there are about 35 in light blue left. I hope they get to R-U198 soon and don't have to go through all of those.

                    I wrote to try to get them to test for R-U198; but they said once the test is underway, they can't change the order of testing.
                    "There's no reason for it; it's just our policy."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oh, I see you wrote to them, too...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Success; they must have been working on the weekend, because it's Sunday morning -- and it wasn't posted yesterday. R-U198 positive! Thank you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wilma Wildcat View Post
                          Success; they must have been working on the weekend, because it's Sunday morning -- and it wasn't posted yesterday. R-U198 positive! Thank you.

                          Me too !!

                          R-L2 positive.

                          May 15th is soooo long ago now.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by k.o.gran View Post
                            The reason L237 and L45 are black on the same line as L164 is because these mutations are thought to have occurred at the same time in the same individual.
                            I always assumed that parallel UEPs resulted from entire subclades becoming extinct rather than multiple mutations in the same individual. Wouldn't the latter be astronomically unlikely, or are they not independent events?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hamish View Post
                              I always assumed that parallel UEPs resulted from entire subclades becoming extinct rather than multiple mutations in the same individual. Wouldn't the latter be astronomically unlikely, or are they not independent events?
                              You might be right. I don't really know.
                              Maybe someone else does?

                              Comment

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