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Irish Y-Chromosome - European DNA Sites for Comparison?

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  • Irish Y-Chromosome - European DNA Sites for Comparison?

    Hello -

    I am only able to trace my direct male line back to my ancestor, James Welch, who was born in Ireland around 1831. He ended up in Circleville, Ohio in the early 1850's but I've never found a ships log which indicates where he arrived or where he sailed from. The fact that his name was common makes searching difficult. James married Ellen Kane (Cain/Cane/Kain etc) and I think she may have been from County Clare. I can't find any confirmation of brothers, sisters, cousins or other relatives in Circleville, although I find plenty of Welch, Welsh and Walsh surnames (no link has been found despite endless searching).

    James ended up fighting in the civil war and was wounded in Gettysburg in 1863. His pension file, which I ordered from the government, is huge - over 400 pages. There are some documents which indicate that he was from County Kerry (these are actually part of his military service file). Two 1913 obituaries exist, one of which says he was born in County Clare. There are some other factual mistakes in one of the obits, so I'm not sure I can hang my hat on that he was from Clare or Kerry, or somewhere else entirely. There was also some family lore that he was born on "Welsh Island" of of Wales. All other documents list Ireland as his home so I think that the Welsh Island story is likely incorrect. I've even searched the town of "Walsh Island" in County Offally with no luck. I have a lead in Kerry, but it could be nothing. I haven't been able to turn anything up in Clare as searching records there is very difficult.

    I've had amazing luck using DNA to research my Italian heritage and have even broken through some pretty serious brickwalls using DNA. I have lots and lots of matches on all markers except for 111 (no matches there). In e-mailing people, I can find no link. I have no common surnames in any of my Y-chromosome matches. I've confimed one ancestor on family finder, but it's from a different line. I match no Welch surnames on the rest of family finder.

    Since I'm pretty sure James was from Ireland, what I really need is a large pool of Irish DNA to compare to. Are there any other websites with large European databases to compare to? I'm on ysearch but I have very few matches and nothing with a Welch/Welsh/Walsh surname. I'm really coming up with nothing and hope that DNA may be able to help me break through my brickwall. In the meantime I will continue to search for paper records here and abroad. I'm finding Irish family history to be very very difficult!

    Many thanks for reading my message and any advice would be much appreciated.

    very best wishes,

    KCW

  • #2
    KC, if it helps, I'm in Columbus, OH & can look up records for you at the Ohio Historical Society or Columbus Library. Not sure if you have easy access to those places

    Comment


    • #3
      You must be correct that James Welch was not born in Wales. Welsh/Welch/Walsh are Irish names which may refer to lines which came from Wales with the Normans, but they are not Welsh names here in Wales.

      Wales has only one large inhabited island, Anglesey (or Ynys Mon in Welsh). Neither version equates to "Welsh Island." Due to its closeness to Ireland, British people have been crossing from Anglesey for centuries, but it has no natural connection with the west of Ireland where your ancestor was apparently from.

      Good luck in your research.
      Jim

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the input. Is there such a place called Welsh/Welch island anywhere? I've never been able to find such a place. I've always wondered where this information originally came from. Thanks!

        Comment


        • #5
          The best thing you could do is to put your markers on ySearch and join the 'Ireland Y-DNA Project'.
          With our premier suite of DNA tests and the world’s most comprehensive matching database...your DNA has met its match!


          Walsh(e)/Welsh is one of the most common surnames in Ireland. In Irish it's Breathnach, which means Welshman or Briton.

          Comment


          • #6
            What is your haplogroup and subclade? Just curious as to what you mean by Irish DNA. If it matches my Y, that is R1b1a2a1a1b4* (L21) then it is the most frequent subclade in Ireland. However it is also found on the continent where my family originated. There is an L21 project here and a yahoo group as well.

            Comment


            • #7
              I was recently tweeking out another outer twig on my extensive maternal tree. And I remember seeing the name Welsh (or similar) somehow associated with it, but did not save that connection. I guess it was not close enough. Two surnames I did save from that bunch (Ancestry.com) were Park(s) > Ireland, and Rippey > Angus, Scotland. They were in the Indianapolis, Indiana area by the 1800s.

              Comment


              • #8
                My Haplogroup is I1 and my deep clade test is still pending. Just upgraded to the Y111 marker (no matches) and added the deep clade to make everything complete. I'd like to do the "Walk Through the Y" but can't afford it right now.

                My direct male ancestry is truly stuck at my third great grandfather, James Welch. I'm hoping one day to get a fortuitous Y-DNA match that will help me. In the meantime, I'm hoping to turn up something in Irish records (which I'm learning are incredibly difficult during the era I'm search, 1830's to 1850's). Beyond that, I know of no siblings, cousins or other relatives for my ancestor James, so there are no auxiliary lines to grab onto to trace back to him.

                My YSearch ID is GMEUV. Are there other DNA databases that contain more Y-chromosome Irish DNA? I'm guessing not.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KCWelch View Post
                  Thanks for the input. Is there such a place called Welsh/Welch island anywhere? I've never been able to find such a place. I've always wondered where this information originally came from. Thanks!
                  Yes, in Antarctica. www.geonames.org

                  And Canada. Any chance he was born in Canada?

                  Regards,
                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KCWelch View Post
                    Hello -

                    I am only able to trace my direct male line back to my ancestor, James Welch, who was born in Ireland around 1831. He ended up in Circleville, Ohio in the early 1850's but I've never found a ships log which indicates where he arrived or where he sailed from. The fact that his name was common makes searching difficult. James married Ellen Kane (Cain/Cane/Kain etc) and I think she may have been from County Clare. I can't find any confirmation of brothers, sisters, cousins or other relatives in Circleville, although I find plenty of Welch, Welsh and Walsh surnames (no link has been found despite endless searching).

                    James ended up fighting in the civil war and was wounded in Gettysburg in 1863. His pension file, which I ordered from the government, is huge - over 400 pages. There are some documents which indicate that he was from County Kerry (these are actually part of his military service file). Two 1913 obituaries exist, one of which says he was born in County Clare. There are some other factual mistakes in one of the obits, so I'm not sure I can hang my hat on that he was from Clare or Kerry, or somewhere else entirely. There was also some family lore that he was born on "Welsh Island" of of Wales. All other documents list Ireland as his home so I think that the Welsh Island story is likely incorrect. I've even searched the town of "Walsh Island" in County Offally with no luck. I have a lead in Kerry, but it could be nothing. I haven't been able to turn anything up in Clare as searching records there is very difficult.

                    I've had amazing luck using DNA to research my Italian heritage and have even broken through some pretty serious brickwalls using DNA. I have lots and lots of matches on all markers except for 111 (no matches there). In e-mailing people, I can find no link. I have no common surnames in any of my Y-chromosome matches. I've confimed one ancestor on family finder, but it's from a different line. I match no Welch surnames on the rest of family finder.

                    Since I'm pretty sure James was from Ireland, what I really need is a large pool of Irish DNA to compare to. Are there any other websites with large European databases to compare to? I'm on ysearch but I have very few matches and nothing with a Welch/Welsh/Walsh surname. I'm really coming up with nothing and hope that DNA may be able to help me break through my brickwall. In the meantime I will continue to search for paper records here and abroad. I'm finding Irish family history to be very very difficult!

                    Many thanks for reading my message and any advice would be much appreciated.

                    very best wishes,

                    KCW
                    You know there's a James Walsh b.1831 in County Kerry among the similar names at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've seen that website, and it's a very good one. There are several James walsh's born around 1831 that I find using that database. Unfortunately, I know nothing about my ancestor James' parents or siblings. I'm hoping that I'll find a good y chromosome match at some point with my surname that will provide some more information and clues.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've seen this site, and it's very good. There are actually a handful of James Walsh's that were born in Kerry around 1831. The problem is, I have no records here in the USA which indicate who James' parents were. I also know of no other siblings, cousins or other relatives. I've searched the paper trail for a few years and come up with many documents, but none with the information that I need. James had three children: John, Edward and Mary (in that order). This would indicate that his father may have been John, but I know this isn't a strict rule. I also think there may have another daughter named Amanda, but this is speculation (she would have died at birth or in infancy). What I really need is a Y-chromosome match with some Walsh/Welsh/Welch Irish citizens, and that's what I'm hoping for. This is a really stubborn brick wall! In the meantime, I'm hoping to find some paper documents which may have further clues.

                        Comment

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